Southern Pacific Lines

Coast Line Division 

“The Route of the Octopus”

 
 

General Information

Parlor-Obs Rear Light colors (Daylight)

Tailight

  1. The observation tail light was a working Mars light.


  1. Wrights Daylight book describes the roof center light (a steady white light) as a back-up light and definitely would not be flashing. It was also an emergency (red) light.

  2. Tony Thompson


  3. The two side lights and the red Daylight sign would work as markers.

  4. Paul Vernon

white lamp

  1. As built the 1937 and 1941 Daylight tail parlor-observation cars had only a fixed-beam white reverse lamp up there at center on the roof.

fixed red beam

  1. The SP eventually modernized the rear marker lamps on all their public and business cars with observation ends to have, at first, a fixed red beam in place of the former backup lamp.

oscillating red light

  1. The Shasta Daylight's streamlined obs cars got the "second generation" updated marker cluster with Mars or Pyle National Gyra-Lite oscillating red light at center and the flanking fixed small aspect red and green roof markers as adjunct to the fixed markers on the cars' letter board ends.Rear-end collisions with the Lark forced SP to adopt oscillating red tail lamps on their passenger observation, sleeping cars and business cars.

Light Packages & marker lights and tail-end signal

  1. They were prototypical for use behind the Morning and Coast Daylight Passenger Trains, most likely used in the event that the standard car was in shop repair.


  2. SP observations had extra light packages added with different marker lights and tail-end signal treatment on the 1941 and 1955 Daylight boat-tail observation cars. The rear light package on some Parlor Observation Car includes 4 more colored RED/GREEN marker lights. Other observation cars have a single tail light.


  3. All SP rear-end cars had these light packages in various guizes and periods.


  1. Blind-end streamlined sleeping cars were built new with the later light clusters.

  2. Kevin Bunker


Daylight Observation Car Tail light

  1. Those streamlined letterboard markers were moved further to the rear of the Lark and Daylight observation cars after two Lark rear-end accidents.


Lark Observation Car Tail light

  1. On the Lark cars, the small red and green markers on the roof came before the large Mars red light. Remember, the four Lark cars never had roof mounted lights when new. The first change was that those streamlined letterboard markers were moved further to the rear of the Lark and Daylight observation cars after the two Lark rear-end accidents. The roof light eventually was fitted out with the red light and a white back-up light in the same housing. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen


Modeling Parlor-Obs

Broadway Limited   (1941 & 1953)

    When coupled to an Athearn 77-C-3 coach, it matches in every way.

Antennae and stanchions

  1. BLI antennae and stanchions are too thick.


  1. You can get the Morning Daylight or the '53 Daylight. They were all connected to the Morning Daylight cars, not the '53 Cars. It has poor rolling characteristics. The pickup system, wheels connected by a plastic axle a.l.a Walthers, is primarily to blame. Use the "Tool" on the journals and ream them out a little so that the axles turn more smoothly.

  2. Jim Scott

Trucks

  1. 1) BLI trucks provide electrical pickup, and attaching wipers to D&G trucks could be complicated.

  2. 2) The BLI trucks are attached with a pin arrangement like an Accurail freight car.


  3. Stick with the BLI trucks, if you can. Use D&G trucks as a last resort.

  4. Spen

Full-width diaphragms

  1. The BLI cars do come with solid (non-flexible) diaphragms. All the car cards I've looked at never mention removal of full-width diaphragms. This is because their removal was covered by a project number. This meant that if they came into the shops for any reason, the full-width diaphragms were removed (outer wings anyway). The inner diaphragm remained unchanged. The striker plate was just cut back, which may be seen in photos. I've never come across a photo of a car in 1957 or later in which the car had full-width diaphragms. The 1954 tall window chair cars (for the Shasta and Coast Daylight) had full-width diaphragms and the 1955 dome-lounge cars did not.

  2. Jeff Cauthen


  3. To remove the rigid full width diaphragm it from the car, just pull it off.

  4. Jim Elliot

Electrical

  1. The Broadway Limited car comes with a similar single light in the roof and has the white light on all the time (no flashing). For the early car by BL, the roof light (white backup light) should be out and only the two tear drop markers and the red Daylight sign should be illuminated.


  2. BLI has ugly exposed wires down the aisle which need to be replaced or hid. These two blue wires running down the center of the car supply power to the drumhead LED. These wires were floating above the level of the backs of the seats and were clearly visible thru the windows. Remove the floor from the car and reposition the wires so that the run along the floor, but they are still quite visible. The wire color does match the interior color.


  3. BLI tail-sign, tail-light and interior lights are too bright and shone plainly thru the body. Do some shielding, painting and increase the dropping resistor sizes.


  4. It has a solid red light surrounded by two green and two red lights on the rear of the car.


  1. For the BLI Observation car is to install a TCS FL4 that controlled all of the lights. That way you can turn on the interior lights, drum head, marker and backup light individually.

  2. John Moonan


MTH vs. BLI Daylight Observation cars

Details

Skirting

  1. The last skirted new cars received by SP were delivered in 1949.  All 1950 deliveries lacked full center skirting.

  2. Jeff Cauthen

Interior

  1. BLI chairs have separate arms.

  2. The MTH chairs don't have separate arms.

Paint

BLI Paint

  1. BLI paint is slightly brighter but the same shades.

Interior Paint

  1. BLI have two colors

  2. The MTH observation car has only one interior color.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. BLI lettering is brighter.

Electrical

Marker lights

  1. BLI marker lights are brighter than MTH's.




Parlor Cars

77-PR  Parlor Cars

77-PR-1

  1. #3000-3001

  2. steel, #3000 converted to Dome-Lounge #3604 in 1955


  1. #3001


  1. #3001 changed from T&NO #701 to SP 3001, then 2238, repainted Daylight colors, converted to Chair #2438 in 1948.

#3001 Parlor Car conversion

  1. After the Kingsburg collision disaster of February 1947 the car was damaged in the resulting fireball as it was third in line on #51 that day, but was subsequently not out shopped by Sacramento as chair car #2438 until May of 1948.


  2. The SP parlor 3001 took long to be out shopped and converted to chair SP 2438. There were three cars on the San Joaquin that day that came close to being destroyed. They all needed considerable shopping and rebuilding and this work on top of other post war shopping already in process at Sacramento meant a back log of work. On top of all this the SP was more in need of food and lounge cars (at that time) than they were chair cars, so the #3001 conversion to a chair car was not a high priority.

Reference

  1.                                                                          Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 1: Coaches and Chair Cars.

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 317-323

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 319


77-PR-2

  1. T&NO #700-701

Reference

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 324-329

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 324




79-PR  Parlor Cars  (Stateroom)

79-PR-1  Parlor Car

  1. #3002 - 3003


  2. steel, seats 27, baggage elevator, #3002 converted to Chair # 2242 in 1954, #3003 converted to Chair # 2243 in 1964.

Details

Side Marker Lights

  1. The side markers remained. The cars were well lit. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen

Lights

  1. The Lark had been rear-ended twice, and this lead to SP's decision to improve the lighting on the Parlor-Observations. The 5 light package modification would have been close to 1946 -1948. The car cards do not show installation dates for the parlor-observation cars.

  2. Jeff Cauthen

Reference

  1. We have a photograph of COSF Russian Hill dated Oct. 1947 showing the light package.

  2. Also a photo of a 79-PR-1 on the Noon Daylight in 1947 with the light package.  

  3. We have another photo from summer 1946 showing a 79-PR-1 with the light package.

  4. Jeff Cauthen

Reference

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 330-337

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 330

Modeling 79-PR-1  Parlor Cars




Parlor - Observation Cars

  1. All parlor-observation classes operated on the Shasta Daylight at one time or another. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen


77- PRO  Parlor - Observation Cars

77- PRO-1  Parlor - Observation Cars

  1. #2950, 2951    


  2. steel, seats 23, #2950 turned into a Dome-Lounge #3600 in 1954. They were removed from service during WWII.

  3. The Class 77-PRO-1 (SP 2950-2951) were assigned to the Noon Daylight. After the Noon Daylight was discontinued the Class 77-PRO-1 cars went to the S.F. Overland. These parlor-observation cars operated on the Shasta Daylight as relief cars.  SP #2950 was used as the basis for an SP dome lounge car.

  4. Jeff Cauthen

Paint

  1. Daylight  color

Details

  1. Rear Mars Lights added on in 1948.

Tail Heralds:

  1. Tomar Drumheads Daylight(*see T-39/18-24)

Reference

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 339-354

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 339

Modeling 77-PRO-1

Coach Yard

    #2951Parlor Observation

Paint

    Daylight Color

MTH

Diaphragms

  1. MTH's diaphragms are pretty good.

Electrical MTH

  1. The MTH Parlor-Obs car Class PRO-77-1 car #2951 has a flashing recessed white light in the roof.

  2. For the early car by MTH the roof light (white backup light) should be out and only the two tear drop markers and the red Daylight sign should be illuminated.


  3. For those modeling years before 1957, you will not be following Rule 19(B).


  4. Light your BL car (5 light package) with only the red markers lit. Can't imagine ever using the green ones on a model layout. For the car with the white light fixture, it will not be lit. Consider using a lights only DCC decoder to make the light come on when backing.

  5. Paul Vernon


  6. Few if any of us are going to light markers in differing colors in different situations, but obviously it would be nice to turn them off in daylight.

  7. Tony Thompson


  1. Install a Digitrax DZ 125 subminiature decoder to operate the backing light. The decoder output requires a current-limiting resistor, which you can adjust for brightness. Suggested range: 560-2200 ohms. It probably will require a load resistor on the motor leads to work reliably. Use 2700 ohms.


  2. Add additional black painting inside the back end of the obs car. The housing over the tail-sign needs it.

  3. Hal Greenlee

Interior Lights

  1. The MTH interior lights also shine thru the shells, but the back lighting is better controlled. When apart, try adding some opaque interior paint. The MTH's have much bigger anti-flicker capacitors, but this isn't necessarily good.


79-PRO-1  Parlor - Observation Cars

  1. #2952, 2953


  2. steel, seats 22

  3. Used in Daylight service, converted to coach/observation.

  4. Class 79-PRO-1 (SP 2952-2953) went to the Morning Daylight from the Noon Daylight.

  5. The 79-PRO-1 Parlor Observation were taken from the Morning Daylight and used on the Shasta Daylight.

   SP #2952 and 2953 were assigned to the Coast Daylight.

  1. #2295-96 assigned to San Joaquin Daylight in 1966

  2. These parlor-observation cars operated on the Shasta Daylight as relief cars. 

Reference

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 356-369

  1. *see                                                                   Trainline #34

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 358

  1. Plans for: SP 2953 - Observation/Parlor           Model Railroader October 1948

Modeling 79-PR-1  Parlor-Observation Cars

Broadway Ltd.

  1. Broadway Limited included a special edition Parlor-Observation with the 5 light package with at least some of it's GS-4 models. However, the last run of the Daylight with steam was on 7. January 1955, so if it was a feature of the 1955 train, it would not be appropriate to run this Parlor-Observation with a GS-4. The BLI parlor-obs with the five-light package was offered separately from the GS4.


  2. BLI cars in the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme are incorrect, lacking the 5 light package. That is, with the exception of the special edition BLI Parlor-Observation. The cars had received the light package prior to receiving the updated lettering.

  3. Arved


  1. The special edition Parlor-Observation is merely the standard edition car with another number.


  1. It is the only car in the promised Daylight train that BLI has released.

  2. The BLI has a 'round end'. In the case of these Daylight cars, published drawings have seemed to favor the round shape. Pullman built actual 'round end' cars for other roads at other times. So a 'round end' is not unprototypical, it's just not what the Daylight cars happened to be.

Challenger Imports Limited (C-I-L)

  1. They made a "1941" and "1955" Daylight models versions, without and with the 5 light package.


MTH

  1. MTH cars in the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme are incorrect, lacking the 5 light package. The cars had received the light package prior to receiving the updated lettering.

  2. Arved


  1. It is a Parlor -Obs. Bob Zenk believes the MTH version is more accurate.

  2. The MTH model is a recent acquisition and is part of a five-car set that was recently released (the other cars in the set are a baggage-chair, chair, tavern and parlor).

  3. The MTH has a tapered 'bullet end'.

MTH  Electrical

  1. The MTH version with the interior lights on are not as bright as in the BLI car.

MTH  Paint

  1. In the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme.


Soho

  1. Soho (ca. 1970s) is the Sunbeam diner-lounge-observation.

  2. It is a Tavern-Diner, not Parlor -Obs.

  3. The window height of the Soho cars is shorter in height all together.

  4. The Soho 'has a round end'. In the case of these Daylight cars, published drawings have seemed to favor the round shape. Pullman built actual 'round end' cars for other roads at other times. So a 'round end' is not unprototypical, it's just not what the Daylight cars happened to be.


MTH vs BLI vs. Soho Daylight Parlor-Observation Comparison

  1. There is a discussion on Trainorders.com regarding the MTH, BLI & Soho Daylight parlor-observation models. The models have different curvatures for the sides at the rear of the car. See some comparison photos at:                                                      

  2.                                                                          http://tinyurl.com/7u2lgsx

  3. The Trainorders.com discussion is here             http://tinyurl.com/7h2amzs

  4. Jim Lancaster



79-PRO-2  Parlor - Observation Cars

  1. #2954, 2955


  2. steel, seats 22, radio telephone

  3. Used in Daylight service, The Coast Daylight then took the 79-PRO-2s that were used on the Noon Daylight.

  4. Class 79-PRO-2 (SP 2954-2955) went to the Shasta Daylight from the Morning Daylight after modifications around 1950.

  5. #2955 converted to Chair #2954 in 1963, converted to coach/observation

  6. #2297, assigned to San Joaquin Daylight 1966,

Details

Lights

  1. Two Shasta cars, #2954-55 got a big rear light and then the box type light package. All SP rear-end cars had these light packages in various guizes and periods.

Reference

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 369-381

  1. *see                                                                   Trainline #34

Drawing

                                                                            Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 381

Modeling 79-PR-2  Parlor-Observation Cars

Broadway Ltd.

  1. BLI numbered their cars #2954/5 which were the assigned parlor-observations on the Shasta Daylight in 1953 and the mars light housing is wrong for this time period on the Shasta Daylight. The BLI Parlor-Observations #2954/5 are definitely not 1953 Coast Daylight cars as advertised.

  2. Ken Clark


  1. You're correct about the SP light package. I pointed this out to them, but they didn't want to do the steam-ejector A/C underbody for SP 1952/2953. That was their compromise/decision. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen

Coach Yard


Broadway Ltd. vs. Coach Yard

  1. In Wright's Daylight book and the parlor-observation car diagram definitely shows a more pointed end contour than my BLI parlor-obs #2955. Comparing the BLI #2955 to my Coach Yard Shasta Daylight parlor-observation #2955, the BLI car is more pointed or the Coach Yard model is even more rounded. Finally I went to the Pullman-Standard Volume 5 which has blueprint tracings of these cars. P-S Vol 5 shows a much more rounded end than the Wright book. At this time I am satisfied that the BLI #2955 is close enough in end contour, especially when compared to a Coach Yard mega bucks car.

  2. Ken Clark


 
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Photo courtesy of Jim Pattison