Southern Pacific Lines
Coast Line Division
“The Route of the Octopus”
Southern Pacific Lines
Coast Line Division
“The Route of the Octopus”
General Information
Parlor-Obs Rear Light colors (Daylight)
Tailight
The observation tail light was a working Mars light.
Wrights Daylight book describes the roof center light (a steady white light) as a back-up light and definitely would not be flashing. It was also an emergency (red) light.
Tony Thompson
The two side lights and the red Daylight sign would work as markers.
Paul Vernon
white lamp
As built the 1937 and 1941 Daylight tail parlor-observation cars had only a fixed-beam white reverse lamp up there at center on the roof.
fixed red beam
The SP eventually modernized the rear marker lamps on all their public and business cars with observation ends to have, at first, a fixed red beam in place of the former backup lamp.
oscillating red light
The Shasta Daylight's streamlined obs cars got the "second generation" updated marker cluster with Mars or Pyle National Gyra-Lite oscillating red light at center and the flanking fixed small aspect red and green roof markers as adjunct to the fixed markers on the cars' letter board ends.Rear-end collisions with the Lark forced SP to adopt oscillating red tail lamps on their passenger observation, sleeping cars and business cars.
Light Packages & marker lights and tail-end signal
They were prototypical for use behind the Morning and Coast Daylight Passenger Trains, most likely used in the event that the standard car was in shop repair.
SP observations had extra light packages added with different marker lights and tail-end signal treatment on the 1941 and 1955 Daylight boat-tail observation cars. The rear light package on some Parlor Observation Car includes 4 more colored RED/GREEN marker lights. Other observation cars have a single tail light.
All SP rear-end cars had these light packages in various guizes and periods.
Blind-end streamlined sleeping cars were built new with the later light clusters.
Kevin Bunker
Daylight Observation Car Tail light
Those streamlined letterboard markers were moved further to the rear of the Lark and Daylight observation cars after two Lark rear-end accidents.
Lark Observation Car Tail light
On the Lark cars, the small red and green markers on the roof came before the large Mars red light. Remember, the four Lark cars never had roof mounted lights when new. The first change was that those streamlined letterboard markers were moved further to the rear of the Lark and Daylight observation cars after the two Lark rear-end accidents. The roof light eventually was fitted out with the red light and a white back-up light in the same housing.
Jeff Cauthen
Modeling Parlor-Obs
Broadway Limited (1941 & 1953)
When coupled to an Athearn 77-C-3 coach, it matches in every way.
Antennae and stanchions
BLI antennae and stanchions are too thick.
You can get the Morning Daylight or the '53 Daylight. They were all connected to the Morning Daylight cars, not the '53 Cars. It has poor rolling characteristics. The pickup system, wheels connected by a plastic axle a.l.a Walthers, is primarily to blame. Use the "Tool" on the journals and ream them out a little so that the axles turn more smoothly.
Jim Scott
Trucks
1) BLI trucks provide electrical pickup, and attaching wipers to D&G trucks could be complicated.
2) The BLI trucks are attached with a pin arrangement like an Accurail freight car.
Stick with the BLI trucks, if you can. Use D&G trucks as a last resort.
Spen
Full-width diaphragms
The BLI cars do come with solid (non-flexible) diaphragms. All the car cards I've looked at never mention removal of full-width diaphragms. This is because their removal was covered by a project number. This meant that if they came into the shops for any reason, the full-width diaphragms were removed (outer wings anyway). The inner diaphragm remained unchanged. The striker plate was just cut back, which may be seen in photos. I've never come across a photo of a car in 1957 or later in which the car had full-width diaphragms. The 1954 tall window chair cars (for the Shasta and Coast Daylight) had full-width diaphragms and the 1955 dome-lounge cars did not.
Jeff Cauthen
To remove the rigid full width diaphragm it from the car, just pull it off.
Jim Elliot
Electrical
The Broadway Limited car comes with a similar single light in the roof and has the white light on all the time (no flashing). For the early car by BL, the roof light (white backup light) should be out and only the two tear drop markers and the red Daylight sign should be illuminated.
BLI has ugly exposed wires down the aisle which need to be replaced or hid. These two blue wires running down the center of the car supply power to the drumhead LED. These wires were floating above the level of the backs of the seats and were clearly visible thru the windows. Remove the floor from the car and reposition the wires so that the run along the floor, but they are still quite visible. The wire color does match the interior color.
BLI tail-sign, tail-light and interior lights are too bright and shone plainly thru the body. Do some shielding, painting and increase the dropping resistor sizes.
It has a solid red light surrounded by two green and two red lights on the rear of the car.
For the BLI Observation car is to install a TCS FL4 that controlled all of the lights. That way you can turn on the interior lights, drum head, marker and backup light individually.
John Moonan
MTH vs. BLI Daylight Observation cars
Details
Skirting
The last skirted new cars received by SP were delivered in 1949. All 1950 deliveries lacked full center skirting.
Jeff Cauthen
Interior
BLI chairs have separate arms.
The MTH chairs don't have separate arms.
Paint
BLI Paint
BLI paint is slightly brighter but the same shades.
Interior Paint
BLI have two colors
The MTH observation car has only one interior color.
Lettering & Numbering
BLI lettering is brighter.
Electrical
Marker lights
BLI marker lights are brighter than MTH's.
Parlor Cars
77-PR Parlor Cars
77-PR-1
#3000-3001
steel, #3000 converted to Dome-Lounge #3604 in 1955
#3001
#3001 changed from T&NO #701 to SP 3001, then 2238, repainted Daylight colors, converted to Chair #2438 in 1948.
#3001 Parlor Car conversion
After the Kingsburg collision disaster of February 1947 the car was damaged in the resulting fireball as it was third in line on #51 that day, but was subsequently not out shopped by Sacramento as chair car #2438 until May of 1948.
The SP parlor 3001 took long to be out shopped and converted to chair SP 2438. There were three cars on the San Joaquin that day that came close to being destroyed. They all needed considerable shopping and rebuilding and this work on top of other post war shopping already in process at Sacramento meant a back log of work. On top of all this the SP was more in need of food and lounge cars (at that time) than they were chair cars, so the #3001 conversion to a chair car was not a high priority.
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 1: Coaches and Chair Cars.
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 317-323
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 319
77-PR-2
T&NO #700-701
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 324-329
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 324
79-PR Parlor Cars (Stateroom)
79-PR-1 Parlor Car
#3002 - 3003
steel, seats 27, baggage elevator, #3002 converted to Chair # 2242 in 1954, #3003 converted to Chair # 2243 in 1964.
Details
Side Marker Lights
The side markers remained. The cars were well lit.
Jeff Cauthen
Lights
The Lark had been rear-ended twice, and this lead to SP's decision to improve the lighting on the Parlor-Observations. The 5 light package modification would have been close to 1946 -1948. The car cards do not show installation dates for the parlor-observation cars.
Jeff Cauthen
Reference
We have a photograph of COSF Russian Hill dated Oct. 1947 showing the light package.
Also a photo of a 79-PR-1 on the Noon Daylight in 1947 with the light package.
We have another photo from summer 1946 showing a 79-PR-1 with the light package.
Jeff Cauthen
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 330-337
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 330
Modeling 79-PR-1 Parlor Cars
Parlor - Observation Cars
All parlor-observation classes operated on the Shasta Daylight at one time or another.
Jeff Cauthen
77- PRO Parlor - Observation Cars
77- PRO-1 Parlor - Observation Cars
#2950, 2951
steel, seats 23, #2950 turned into a Dome-Lounge #3600 in 1954. They were removed from service during WWII.
The Class 77-PRO-1 (SP 2950-2951) were assigned to the Noon Daylight. After the Noon Daylight was discontinued the Class 77-PRO-1 cars went to the S.F. Overland. These parlor-observation cars operated on the Shasta Daylight as relief cars. SP #2950 was used as the basis for an SP dome lounge car.
Jeff Cauthen
Paint
Daylight color
Details
Rear Mars Lights added on in 1948.
Tail Heralds:
Tomar Drumheads Daylight(*see T-39/18-24)
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 339-354
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 339
Modeling 77-PRO-1
Coach Yard
#2951Parlor Observation
Paint
Daylight Color
MTH
Diaphragms
MTH's diaphragms are pretty good.
Electrical MTH
The MTH Parlor-Obs car Class PRO-77-1 car #2951 has a flashing recessed white light in the roof.
For the early car by MTH the roof light (white backup light) should be out and only the two tear drop markers and the red Daylight sign should be illuminated.
For those modeling years before 1957, you will not be following Rule 19(B).
Light your BL car (5 light package) with only the red markers lit. Can't imagine ever using the green ones on a model layout. For the car with the white light fixture, it will not be lit. Consider using a lights only DCC decoder to make the light come on when backing.
Paul Vernon
Few if any of us are going to light markers in differing colors in different situations, but obviously it would be nice to turn them off in daylight.
Tony Thompson
Install a Digitrax DZ 125 subminiature decoder to operate the backing light. The decoder output requires a current-limiting resistor, which you can adjust for brightness. Suggested range: 560-2200 ohms. It probably will require a load resistor on the motor leads to work reliably. Use 2700 ohms.
Add additional black painting inside the back end of the obs car. The housing over the tail-sign needs it.
Hal Greenlee
Interior Lights
The MTH interior lights also shine thru the shells, but the back lighting is better controlled. When apart, try adding some opaque interior paint. The MTH's have much bigger anti-flicker capacitors, but this isn't necessarily good.
79-PRO-1 Parlor - Observation Cars
#2952, 2953
steel, seats 22
SP #2952-2953 in 1941 they would have had steam-ejector A/C. By 1953 SP #2952-2953 had been upgraded with Waukesha, but the underbody arrangement was completely different than SP #2954-2955.
Jeff Cauthen
Used in Daylight service, converted to coach/observation.
Class 79-PRO-1 (SP 2952-2953) went to the Morning Daylight from the Noon Daylight.
The 79-PRO-1 Parlor Observation were taken from the Morning Daylight and used on the Shasta Daylight.
SP #2952 and 2953 were assigned to the Coast Daylight.
#2295-96 assigned to San Joaquin Daylight in 1966
These parlor-observation cars operated on the Shasta Daylight as relief cars.
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 356-369
*see Trainline #34
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 358
Plans for: SP 2953 - Observation/Parlor Model Railroader October 1948
Modeling 79-PR-1 Parlor-Observation Cars
Broadway Ltd.
Broadway Limited included a special edition Parlor-Observation with the 5 light package with at least some of it's GS-4 models. However, the last run of the Daylight with steam was on 7. January 1955, so if it was a feature of the 1955 train, it would not be appropriate to run this Parlor-Observation with a GS-4. The BLI parlor-obs with the five-light package was offered separately from the GS4.
BLI cars in the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme are incorrect, lacking the 5 light package. That is, with the exception of the special edition BLI Parlor-Observation. The cars had received the light package prior to receiving the updated lettering.
Arved
The special edition Parlor-Observation is merely the standard edition car with another number.
It is the only car in the promised Daylight train that BLI has released.
The BLI has a 'round end'. In the case of these Daylight cars, published drawings have seemed to favor the round shape. Pullman built actual 'round end' cars for other roads at other times. So a 'round end' is not unprototypical, it's just not what the Daylight cars happened to be.
Challenger Imports Limited (C-I-L)
They made a "1941" and "1955" Daylight models versions, without and with the 5 light package.
MTH
MTH cars in the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme are incorrect, lacking the 5 light package. The cars had received the light package prior to receiving the updated lettering.
Arved
It is a Parlor -Obs. Bob Zenk believes the MTH version is more accurate.
The MTH model is a recent acquisition and is part of a five-car set that was recently released (the other cars in the set are a baggage-chair, chair, tavern and parlor).
The MTH has a tapered 'bullet end'.
MTH Electrical
The MTH version with the interior lights on are not as bright as in the BLI car.
MTH Paint
In the post 1946 Southern Pacific (sans Lines) paint scheme.
Soho
Soho (ca. 1970s) is the Sunbeam diner-lounge-observation.
It is a Tavern-Diner, not Parlor -Obs.
The window height of the Soho cars is shorter in height all together.
The Soho 'has a round end'. In the case of these Daylight cars, published drawings have seemed to favor the round shape. Pullman built actual 'round end' cars for other roads at other times. So a 'round end' is not unprototypical, it's just not what the Daylight cars happened to be.
MTH vs BLI vs. Soho Daylight Parlor-Observation Comparison
There is a discussion on Trainorders.com regarding the MTH, BLI & Soho Daylight parlor-observation models. The models have different curvatures for the sides at the rear of the car. See some comparison photos at:
The Trainorders.com discussion is here http://tinyurl.com/7h2amzs
Jim Lancaster
79-PRO-2 Parlor - Observation Cars
#2954, 2955
steel, seats 22, radio telephone
SP #2954-2955 because those cars had Waukesha A/C.
Used in Daylight service, The Coast Daylight then took the 79-PRO-2s that were used on the Noon Daylight.
Class 79-PRO-2 (SP 2954-2955) went to the Shasta Daylight from the Morning Daylight after modifications around 1950.
By the 1953 Post War Coast Daylight timeframe they (#2954 &2955) were running at the end of the Shasta Daylight, not the Coast Daylight (Wright page 433).
Ken Clark
#2955 converted to Chair #2954 in 1963, converted to coach/observation
#2297, assigned to San Joaquin Daylight 1966,
Details
Lights
Two Shasta cars, #2954-55 got a big rear light and then the box type light package. All SP rear-end cars had these light packages in various guizes and periods.
Reference
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 369-381
*see Trainline #34
Drawing
Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 5: Lounge, Dome & Parlor, pg. 381
Modeling 79-PR-2 Parlor-Observation Cars
Broadway Ltd.
BLI numbered their cars #2954/5 which were the assigned parlor-observations on the Shasta Daylight in 1953 and the mars light housing is wrong for this time period on the Shasta Daylight. The BLI Parlor-Observations #2954/5 are definitely not 1953 Coast Daylight cars as advertised.
Ken Clark
You're correct about the SP light package. I pointed this out to them, but they didn't want to do the steam-ejector A/C underbody for SP 1952/2953. That was their compromise/decision.
Jeff Cauthen
Coach Yard
Union Station
Use Union Station #6591.
Broadway Ltd. vs. Coach Yard
In Wright's Daylight book and the parlor-observation car diagram definitely shows a more pointed end contour than my BLI parlor-obs #2955. Comparing the BLI #2955 to my Coach Yard Shasta Daylight parlor-observation #2955, the BLI car is more pointed or the Coach Yard model is even more rounded. Finally I went to the Pullman-Standard Volume 5 which has blueprint tracings of these cars. P-S Vol 5 shows a much more rounded end than the Wright book. At this time I am satisfied that the BLI #2955 is close enough in end contour, especially when compared to a Coach Yard mega bucks car.
Ken Clark