Southern Pacific Lines

Coast Line Division 

“The Route of the Octopus”

 
 

Lettering & Numbering

Car Type

  1. The car type was placed at the ends of the letterboard.

1914

  1. The “Southern Pacific Lines” was in 5” extended Roman lettering.

1923

  1. the car type description was centered over each truck, with a horizontal line above and below the reporting marks. S.P. discontinued the use of the word “Lines” on letterboards,  

1935-1941

  1. The car number was centered on the car below the belt rail. Car type (not class) was either above or below the number. Consult photos. This was covered in SP Passenger Cars Volume 4: Dining Service Cars, page 126 and SP Passenger Cars Volume 1: Coaches and Chair Cars, pages 122 and 123. The change occurred circa 1935. Be aware that these changes took place over time, so again consult photos of the car you're modeling. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen


  4. For headend and Harriman passenger cars painted in the green paint during 1939-1941 time frame, imitation gold or DuLux; gold leaf was not used by then.

  5. Jeff Cauthen

1946

  1. SP Lines went to SP June 22, 1946.

  2. Lettering also increased in size from 4 1/2” to 5”. In 6/47 lettering was changed to silver grey for two-tone grey cars.

Until 1947

  1. Aluminum bronze was dropped in June 1947 and replaced by lettering gray. This change took awhile until the old stock of paint was used up.

  2. the standard letterboard was Southern Pacific Lines  in 4”-5” letters regardless of sublettering.

1948

  1. Car type lettering on the letterboards first appeared on October 8, 1948.  This lettering was 2 1/2" and edged in black.

  2. the car type (service designation) was placed in 2 1/2” letters at the ends of the letterboard.

  3. car type names applied 2 1/2” numbers moved to under Lark herald.

After 1948

  1. standard letterboard was just Southern Pacific  in 6” letters

  2. SP always precedes car number  (i.e. SP11610 ).

11/49-11/51

  1. Pullman words replaced with Southern Pacific on sleepers. 2 1/2” Pullman words applied to each end of letterboard.


  3. For striping, the earlier aluminum-bronze stripes came with black pinstriped edges or lettering gray stripes without border pinstripes for the later 1950s period.

  4. Kevin Bunker

1956

  1. Per Pullman passenger car drawing No. D-6804, black edging was eliminated from passenger car lettering on February 23, 1956. Black edging was eliminated from the E9 SP lettering around the same time, but I don't have the locomotive lettering diagrams. 

  2. Jeff Cauthen

1958

  1. Car types, black edging and most Train insignia were dropped in August 1958.

  2. Jeff Cauthen


Lettering & Numbering Reference

  1.                                                                           SP Painting & Lettering Guide, pg. 89-93



Passenger Car Lettering Name Change

  1. Until June 22, 1946, the standard for letterboards was SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES and afterward SOUTHERN PACIFIC. 


  3. Evidence from photos suggests it was done pretty quickly, as it was a corporate name change. By the start of 1948 you would have been hard pressed to find many "LINES" cars. SP took its passenger car appearance seriously in those days. Someone on the list may have done a date-specific survey, which would  be more exact.

  4. Tony Thompson 


  6. There is no absolute date when the last passenger car was relettered, but the "NAME" trains were done very quickly, with the other cars being done within two years or so.


  8. Car types began being applied to car letterboard ends effective October 8, 1948.  This DID NOT apply to non-passenger carrying cars, ie. baggage, baggage-mail, etc. These car types were not normally applied to letterboards on cars painted Dark Olive Green; however, this was not a hard and fast rule as photos exist showing Dark Olive Green cars with car types on the letterboards.


  10. Loco and tender letter and number sizes also were changed at this time. The transition probably occurred over two or so years (1946-48), based on accurately dated photographs. The change drawing I have affected Pacific Lines, all divisions west and north of El Paso.


  12. Aluminum Bronze paint became an option in June 1947 to be replaced with silver gray.  Aluminum Bronze was used until the supply was exhausted.  After that, all lettering was in silver gray.


  14. When the freight car lettering changed in 1955, an awful lot of cars got the new scheme within three years--and freight cars go all over the country, not like passenger cars. Of course, there was also a renumbering in progress, and presumably they took the opportunity while renumbering to update the lettering style. In any case, it DID happen faster than many roads' freight scheme changes.

  15. Tony Thompson   


Passenger Car Numbers

  1. SP/TNO REPLACED car names with numbers on selected heavyweight Pullman cars passenger cars, but not all that it purchased, after the Pullman divestiture of 12/31/48 on?


  3. T&NO numbered only two of the 25 cars it purchased from Pullman. The other 23 retained names, with Southern Pacific on the letterboard. The two T&NO cars that were numbered (819/820) were two-tone gray, IIRC.


  5. On the Pacific Lines, some ttg cars retained names, some were numbered, but it appears that no green ex-Pullman cars were numbered while in service.


  7.    12-1 McKimm      became SP 8323.

  8.   8-1-2 Des Plaines became SP 8260.


  10. In the case of the two cars:

  11. Only one 12-1 received (SP) two-tone gray, car McGlinn. It was assigned number 8322, but it was never applied. In fact, no 12-1 had its number applied.


  13. Only one 8-1-2 received ttg paint, DeForest, which would have been 8258 if any of *these* cars had numbers applied.


  15. Checking the CCR data, it looks like the CCR does not always show the paint scheme for cars sold to SP, if you are correct that no green Pullmans had numbers OR If SP kept the green paint but gave the cars numbers, why would that be reflected in the CCR?


  17. Clover Blossom  (4036B) became SP 8350, 1957-1959, shows GREEN 1954

  18. Clover Colony   (4036I)  became SP 8351, 1957-1961, shows GREEN 1954

  19. Clover Dell     (4036B) became SP 8354, 1957-1961, shows GREEN 1954

  20. Clover Gate    (4036B) became SP 8355, 1956-1965, shows TTG 1956

  21. Clover Gem      (4036G) became SP 8356, 1957-1966, shows GREEN 1954

  22. Clover Goss     (4036G) became SP 8357, 1957-1962, shows GREEN 1954

  23. Clover Gully    (4036G) became SP 8359, 1957-1966, shows GREEN 1953

  24. Clover Haven   (4036B) became SP 8360, 1956-1960, shows GREEN 1956

  25. Clover Home*   (4036G) became SP 8361, 1956-1964, shows TTG 1956

  26. Clover Shore    (4036B) became SP 8363, 1957-1961, shows TTG undated

  27. Poplar Cliff   (4060 )   became SP 8400, 1956-1965, shows TTG 1956

  28. Poplar Cove**   (4060 )   became SP 8401, 1957-1965, shows GREEN 1954

  29. Poplar Crest   (4060 )   became SP 8402, 1956-1961, shows TTG 1956

  30. Poplar Dale    (4060 )   became SP 8403, 1957-1965, shows GREEN 1953

  31. Poplar Junction (4084A) became SP 8404, 1957-1964, shows SP EXT 1957

  32. Poplar Lane              (4084A) became SP 8405, 1957-1961, shows GREEN 1953

  33. Glen Mawr      (3523A) became SP 8456, 1956-1964, shows TTG 1956

  34. Glen Moriston   (3523A) became SP 8457,  nd-1963,   shows TTG 1956

  35. Glen Orchard    (3523A) became SP 8458, 1957-1965, shows GREEN 1953


  37. ** There’s a photo of SP 8401 in two tone gray

  38. *  This car was rebuilt from an older Pullman named "Black Rock", as in "Bad Day At...".


  40. SP 8401 Clover Home was repainted ttg 2/15/57 SP 8361. Probably evidence of records from two company departments simultaneously assailing the operating department.


  42. Pullman appears to have repainted some SP cars into an as yet undocumented green. A couple of the cars mentioned had ttg colors applied at times that will be documented in Volume 2, generally before or at the time the number was applied.


Modeling Harriman Era Cars

Lettering Color for 1930's Harriman passenger cars

  1. Someone makes decals that would have the car name on them that will match the letting on the Walthers HW cars both TT gray and the Pullman green. For the correct color (or decal maker) for 1930's Harriman cars use three kinds of decals, each with a different color.


Color for 1930's Harriman passenger cars

  1. Correct color for 1930's Harriman cars. Use three kinds of decals, each with a different color.

Decals

Microscale

  1. 87-241-8 "SP Heavyweights -- Dulux Gold"

  2. This looks like a bright yellow. It's very visible on the models. This comes out as a dark gold or brass; the color also disappears against the dark olive paint. This is correct, as the metallic color was used prior to WW II. It doesn't look good on most models, as it has to catch the light to look bright (the same was true of the prototype but it operated in far brighter and more diffuse daylight). Also see Microscale's catalog lists an 87-1165 "Passenger Car -- Heavyweight -- Dulux lettering".

Thinfilm

HO-160 "HW/Harriman Set Dulux Gold Lettering"

  1. These represent a post-WW II color (adopted 1947 or 1948?). It does look far better on models.

  2. Tony Thompson   


  4. Decals of course will be Thin Film #160 with Imitation Gold lettering.

  5. Rob Sarberenyi


SP Two Tone Gray Lettering & Numbering

Two Tone Gray Separator Striping

  1. When it was aluminum bronze it was 1 3/4" above and below the windows with 1/4" black edging top and bottom. After the black edging was eliminated it was 2" lettering gray.  It was 1 3/8" wide at the roof edge and skirt edge with 1/4" black edging.


  3. The roof-edge and skirt-edge striping was eliminated during WW II. The striping above and below the windows remained, thus changing from four stripes to two stripes.

  4. Tony Thompson


  1. Striping was never ever white!!!!   Nor was it ever ever “stripping!” It was “striping.”

  2. Jeff Cauthen


  4. When I researched this TTG scheme by making paint strata surveys on CSRM's preserved "Harriman" chair cars, a couple of its IC-class "subs" and the shorty baggage-express-RPO, I found that all sampled cars had only lettering gray striping. This leads me to believe that the aluminum bronze stripes were applied to only those TTG-painted cars assigned to First Class trains like the Lark and the Overland.

  5. Kevin Bunker


  7. The Lettering Gray striping makes sense because TTG didn't become the default paint scheme for all HW cars until 1954.  Prior to that there had been only a limited number of dining cars, lounges and select head end cars painted in TTG for certain trains, ie. SF Overland and Golden State.  Aluminum Bronze was replaced in 1947 by Lettering Gray. 

  8. Jeff Cauthen


  10. Kevin only found Lettering Gray stripes was because he was looking at cars painted in 1954 and later.  In 1954 the TTG scheme became standard for all SP cars not assigned to either the Daylight, Overland/COSF, Golden State and Sunset Limited trains. The TTG cars delivered new in 1949 and 1950 for the Cascade, Lark, and Overland came with Lettering Gray stripes and lettering. The Lark as delivered in 1941 had Aluminum Bronze lettering and stripes. The TTG cars delivered in 1942 for the Overland and Golden State also had Aluminum Bronze lettering and stripes.  In 1941/1942 SP painted select dining cars, lounges, and head end equipment for the Overland, Lark, and Golden State in TTG with Aluminum Bronze lettering and stripes.  Dick Wright states that "...aluminum bronze became an option in June of 1947, and could be used as long as the paint supply lasted; then paint departments must revert to silver gray [lettering gray] paint for all lettering and striping.  It took a few years before the changeover was complete."  See page 581 in Wright's Southern Pacific Daylight Train 98-99.

  11. Jeff Cauthen


Decal

Microscale

  1. The correct Microscale decal set for the 1965-era separator stripe above and below the windows would be MS 91121, 1" & 2" SP lettering gray decals.

  2. Ed Hall


  1. For striping, decide on the earlier aluminum-bronze stripes came with black pinstriped edges (like that supplied in the more recent decal sets made by Microscale) or to mix, spray and mask lettering gray stripes without border pinstripes for the later 1950s period.

  2. Kevin Bunker


SP Daylight Car Lettering & Numbering

  1. 1) as originally delivered with  4 1/2" "Southern Pacific Lines" (outlined in black) on the letterboards

  2. 2) as modified in 1946 deleting "Lines" and increasing the size to 5"

  3. 3) as modified in 1948 adding car types to the letterboard ends.

pre 1946

  1. SP lettering, Aluminum Bronze

post 1946

  1. SP lettering Gray with black lining

end of 1947

  1. Very few passenger cars made it to the end of 1947 with "Lines" lettering, at least for premium trains like the Daylight. Secondary and support cars may have taken somewhat longer.

  2. Tony Thompson   

post 1958

  1. SP lettering Gray without black lining

  2. use Thin Film #180 which is correct for these cars.


  4. SP 10400 received the stylized grey Daylight Logo, while 10401 had only the car number on the name plate.

  5. It carried the San Joaquin logo.

Modeling Daylight Passenger Cars Lettering & Numbering

Decals

Champ

  1. The Champ logo being the only one that is right for the Daylight, Lark and Cascade.


Microscale SP Daylight decals

  1. They need to revise their #87-1055 "SP Shasta Daylight and Coast Daylight Passenger Cars (1947-1958)" set to include the black outlining that lettering for those cars had before the 1958 revision. The present Microscale set 87-1055 is fine for post-1958 cars, but we need that black outlining for pre-1958 modeling.


  3. The SPTC didn’t change their Pax car markings overnight, therefore the pre-1958 could be used with post 58 and establish time frame period (s).

Thin Film - (1941 cars)

  1. Thin Film #180 which is correct for the 1941cars.

Thin Film - (1958 cars)

  1. Thin Film #158 is right for both Daylight and 2TG post 1958 era streamlined cars. Part of it still has to be cobbled up even then.

  2. You get two sheets in each pack. The sets do not include any striping or heralds, only lettering, numbers, and car names (as appropriate) for that particular scheme.


  4. At first glance, it looks like enough stuff to letter TWO cars. However, after closer scrutiny, each of the sheets is split into a top half with somewhat BOLDER font lettering, and the bottom half with thinner font lettering. The only difference between the two halves is that the bottom part (thinner font) has the very small "car type" names (Baggage, Chair, Diner, Dome Lounge, Commute etc) that would go on the ends of the car on the red stripe, and the bolder font top half does not include these. So, in other words, each 6.00 set would completely letter ONE car of either the 1st generation red/silver scheme, or the 2nd generation scheme, or one car of each type.

  5. Pat Flynn


  1. With the ThinFilm Decals, the pinstripes are way too thick.

  2. Jason Hill


SP Golden State Car Lettering & Numbering

Mid 1950's

  1. Mid 1950's (1953-1955) would be the consists that I would base my train on.

  2. Ira Goldberg


  4. For that time period the lettering would be standard SP lettering in Lettering Gray on a black edged Daylight Red letterboard.  The early 50's scheme of Daylight Red over Silver. A Golden State insignia would be centered on the car below the windows.

  5. Jeff Cauthen

Mid 1960's.

  1. Train were all lightweight streamlined red and silver paint scheme circa mid 1960's.

  2. Ira Goldberg


  4. Mid 60' would be simulated stainless steel body and roof color with the a scarlet strip letterboard.

  5. Jeff Cauthen


Lettering & Numbering for Athearn

  1. Athearn lettering and striping is "lettering gray", not white. This is correct for the period they are trying to replicate.

  2. MTH striping & lettering is silver, that is incorrect. It should be aluminum bronze.

  3. Jeff Cauthen


SP Sunbeam Car Lettering & Numbering

Lettering & Numbering

  1. In 1951, Sunbeam cars were painted in scheme similar to the Sunset Limited except that the width of the red stripe was narrower.  This scheme was also used on cars for the Redwood including some heavyweight cars.  All of the diagrams in the book give the width of stripes except this one. 

  2. Stuart Spencer

Refereence

Drawing

  1. We never located a drawing that addressed the Sunbeam and Redwood narrow letterboard painting issue.  But, looking at photos it is obvious that only the flat part of the letterboard on the fluted cars was painted [the narrow Daylight Red with black edging stripe was also applied to the two HW cars assigned to the Redwood]. The lettering used was 5" and covers most of the letterboard from top to bottom.  Therefore, my guess is that the letterboard was about 5 1/2" or 6" wide.

  2. Jeff Cauthen



Decals

California Locomotive Works

  1. PO Box 14226

  2. San Francisco, CA 94114: 


  1. SP Passenger Gray, 1939-46 Dulux Gold Lettering, Post 1941 lettering (2 tone gray cars)


Champ

Logo

  1. The Champ logo being the only one that is right for the Daylight, Lark and Cascade. The only correct Lark logo was done by Champ. and those are all gone now. Champ also had the only good Cascade logo that I know of.

  2. Alan Houtz


Microscale

Microscale Decals  (valid 21st May 1996)


Microscale - Southern Pacific

      NumberRoadnameType                                                    Era            

      87-241-8 Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Heavyweight 20-50

      87- 611         Southern Pacific           Caboose & Pass. Police                                  1985

  1.    87-761          Southern Pacific              Passenger Car Emblems

  2.    87-1165        Southern Pacific              Passenger Cars Heavyweight    Dulux lettering

      87-1055         Southern Pacific             Shasta Daylight and Coast Daylight Passenger Cars       1947-1958

     87-1055         Southern Pacific             present for  post-1958 cars Passenger Cars                     1958-


  1. Microscale 87-241-8 "SP Heavyweights -- Dulux Gold". This comes out as a dark gold or brass; the color also disappears against the dark olive paint. This is correct, as the metallic color was used prior to WW II. It doesn't look good on most models, as it has to catch the light to look bright (the same was true of the prototype but it  operated in far brighter and more diffuse daylight).


  1. The Microscale decals do not have any black boarder to the lettering, although they do have the Daylight logo both with and without. if this has been revised, or how it compares with the Champ decal that's been the standards for the logo. If the lettering hasn't been corrected to have the black outline, the logo hasn't either.


  1. Microscale decals 87-1055 "SP Shasta Daylight and Coast Daylight Passenger Cars (1947-1958)" had the black outlining that lettering for those cars had before the 1958 revision.

  2. The present Microscale set 87-1055 is fine for post-1958 cars.


Microscale Decals Economy Baggage Cars

  1. Microscale makes a set for a General Service decal scheme.


Microscale SP Daylight decals

  1. 87-1055 "SP Shasta Daylight and Coast Daylight Passenger Cars (1947-1958)" had the black outlining that lettering for those cars had before the 1958 revision. You can do some of the lettering with the very fine Thinfilm 158, but part of it still has to be cobbled up somehow even then.  The present Microscale set 87-1055 is fine for post-1958 cars, but we need that black outlining for pre-1958 modeling.


SP Passenger Car Emblems

  1. Microscale decals (87-761) Southern Pacific Passenger Car Emblems. The Cascade and Lark emblems have two sets, one labeled "revised". The first set have black outlined letters, and the "revised" set have red outlined letters. The letters are orange color.


San Juan Decals

  1. Charlie Givens designed the most accurate SP Steam decals that have been produced for the HO modeler. They were originally printed by Foothill Model Works and are currently produced by San Juan Decals.

  2. They can be acquired here:                 http://www.sanjuandecals.com/sp-decal-sets.html

  3. Scott Inman


Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including 72-IC-1/-2/-3 class Suburban coaches ("Subs"), along with the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.


  3. I strongly endorse this recommendation. These are excellent and accurate sets.

  4. Tony Thompson


  1. Thinfilm decals look great on Dark Olive SP cars, in my opinion.

  2. Charles Givens


  4. They look better than the "orange" Thinfilm ones Fred originally did.

  5. Paul Lyons


  7. Below is link to one of my previous posts listing HO scale Southern Pacific steam loco and passenger car lettering sets offered by Thinfilm Decals                                            http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Espee/message/30202

  8.                                                                               http://www.thinfilmdecals.com


  10. Thin film Decals

  11. Box 70323

  12. Pasadena, CA 91117


  14. The Original Whistle Stop in Pasadena, CA          http://www.thewhistlestop.com/Index.html

  15. Caboose Hobbies in Denver, CO                http://www.caboosehobbies.com


Thinfilm SP Gold Color Passenger Car Decal

  1. Thin Film offers several SP passenger car decals sets in HO scale, though not for Daylight painted equipment.


  1. NumberRoadnameType          EraLettering

  2. #158 SP 2-Tone Gray cars lettering gray with black outline

  3. #159 SP All-Gray carsPost-1958 lettering gray no outline

  4. #160 SP Heavyweight cars Dulux Gold lettering

  5. #161 SP Pearl Gray-Official Car Black Lettering


  7. The correct SP Dulux Gold Color is Drift Panel 14, which is not gold or yellow. It's an orangish buff and is close to PMS 124C viewed in daylight. The Pantone color is slightly too orange. It's DuPont Dulux Imitation Gold color as the PRR drift panel is almost identical to the SP one.


  1. The correct lettering is from Thin Film #158.

  2. Rusty Ron


Thin Film - (1941 cars)

  1. Thin Film #180 which is correct for the 1941 cars.

  2. Thin Film #160 which is correct for the 1939-1941 headend green Harriman cars. SP HW/Harriman Set (Dulux Gold Lettering)


  1. There's a scan of Thin Film decal #160 in the files section so you can see all the lettering included in the set. Scroll down to the folder titled "Thinfilm Passenger Car decals"      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Espee/files/

  2. Rob Sarberenyi


Thin Film - (1945 cars)

  1. Thinfilm HO-160 SP Imitation Gold, "HW/Harriman Set Dulux Gold Lettering". These represent a post-WW II color (adopted 1947 or 1948?).

  2. Tony Thompson  

Thin Film - (1958 cars)

  1. Thinfilm #159 would be the right decal set for economy baggage cars, used on many trains. #159 SP Post-1958 all-Gray cars, lettering gray no outline. Thin Film #158 is right for both Daylight and 2TG post 1958 era streamlined cars. Part of it still has to be cobbled up even then.

  2. You get two sheets in each pack. The sets do not include any striping or heralds, only lettering, numbers, and car names (as appropriate) for that particular scheme.


  4. At first glance, it looks like enough stuff to letter TWO cars. However, after closer scrutiny, each of the sheets is split into a top half with somewhat BOLDER font lettering, and the bottom half with thinner font lettering. The only difference between the two halves is that the bottom part (thinner font) has the very small "car type" names (Baggage, Chair, Diner, Dome Lounge, Commute etc) that would go on the ends of the car on the red stripe, and the bolder font top half does not include these. So, in other words, each 6.00 set would completely letter ONE car of either the 1st generation red/silver scheme, or the 2nd generation scheme, or one car of each type.

  5. Pat Flynn


  1. With the ThinFilm Decals, the pinstripes are way too thick.

  2. Jason Hill

                                                                                  



References

References for Lettering & Numbering

Lettering & Numbering

  1.                                                                           SP Painting & Lettering Guide


Magazines

  1.                                                                     Mainline Modeler

  2. 4, 5, 7, 8 & 9 /1995  Listing of all SP Painting & Lettering cars in the various color schemes

  3. 6/84SP Pax Car Lettering

  4. 5/95 SP Pax Car Lettering


  6.                                                                           Railroad Model Craftsman

  7. Ron Plies has a good article about making an HO scale Lark in the March 2004 issue.





 
Southern Pacific Lines Modeling Passenger Cars Lettering
General Info Lettering & Numbering Decals References
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