Southern Pacific Lines

Coast Line Division 

“The Route of the Octopus”

 
 

General Information

Sleeping Cars

Pullman History

  1. For many years, the sleeping car was the domain of the Pullman Company, and in fact the name "Pullman" became synonymous with "sleeper". Pullman operated a huge fleet of heavyweight cars in various configurations, sometimes sub-lettered for the railroads that they were assigned to. Pullman cars ran in regularly scheduled trains on every major railroad, but the Pullman porters were employees of the Pullman Co. Pullman continued to operate it's sleeping car fleet into the lightweight era, but eventually became a separate entity from the car builder Pullman-Standard. As a result, there were sleeping cars built by both Budd and ACF that carried the Pullman name during the lightweight era. The government broke up the Pullman Company 12/31/48, and Pullman's cars were distributed among the railroads. Pullman's fleet of cars continued to operate many of them right up to the end. They still provided service on their own or former cars for the railroads.

S.P. Pullman Passenger Cars Ownership

  1. Prior to 1948, they would have been all Pullman cars. After that, most seen in SP trains would have been lettered "SP" on account of SP ownership, but there did remain cars in Pullman ownership, so lettered, which were in pool service. The intent was that Pullman could provide "overflow" needs. But with the decline of passenger traffic, the presence of such cars in SP trains after 1950 would have been rare. All the open platform sleeper observations were gone by 1949/50. 


Pullman Appearance

  1. Sleepers from the outside tend to look like coaches until you know what to look for. Heavyweight Pullmans have a distinctive pattern of paired windows that give them away. Lightweight sleepers can be spotted by having windows that are spaced slightly farther apart than coaches, and are often asymmetrical. Almost all sleeper configurations can be spotted by their unique window pattern.


Pullman Identification

  1. Some cars are said to be sections-drawing room; some cars are said to be compartments and drawing rooms; some cars are said to be sections, drawing rooms and compartments; some cars are even identified as sections-observation-lounge. While not a specific guide, these statements are certainly indicators of car types regularly assigned, and hence narrow the selection. 


  2. Sleepers are identified most specifically by their Pullman plan number, or more generically by numbers indicating the number and type of accommodations. For instance a 12-1 Pullman is a heavyweight 12-section, 1-drawing room sleeper. A 10-6 is a 10-roomette, 6 double-bedroom lightweight sleeper. A 4-4-2 is a 4-compartment, 4-bedroom, 2-drawing room sleeper. These are just examples... the complete nomenclature (and numerology) of sleeper configurations is a very involved subject.

“Standard” vs. “Tourist” Sleepers

  1. In the heavyweight era, one noticeable difference between a "standard sleeper" and a "tourist sleeper” was the partition between sections. It was mostly permanent on a standard sleeper but removable on a tourist sleeper. Tourist sleepers usually had 14 or 16 sections, standard sleepers 12 or fewer. To add to this, standard sleepers frequently had one or more private rooms in addition to the open sections, a very common pattern being 12 sections, 1 drawing room, a "12-1". Old photos of tourist sleepers show them having rattan seats, while standard sleeper seats were covered in plush. Standard sleepers were air conditioned sooner than tourist cars once air conditioning was introduced in the late 1920s and 1930s. Many tourist sleepers were former 12-1 cars; they were 13 section cars as tourist cars. The 13th section was just the drawing room with the annex (toilet) sealed. In some cases a storage mail car would be sealed, which meant it went from point A to point B without being worked at all.

"Roomette" vs "Double Bedroom"

  1. A roomette is a single-occupancy sleeping compartment which is very compact and efficient. It consists of a generous coach seat, private sink and toilet, picture window, a curtain and/or sliding door for privacy, and a bed which drops lengthwise out of the rear wall behind the seat. When the bed is down, it occupies virtually the entire roomette space. The passenger must open the door to get out of bed, and must go down the hall to the "GT" to use the toilet. A double bedroom is a considerably larger space which provides a sofa-sized coach seat, sink, individual toiler compartment, and two fold-down beds. Pre-war Pullman style double bedrooms are designed in pairs with small, square windows, and both beds are mounted horizontally in the end wall, one over the other. Postwar bedrooms are arranged in an A-B pattern; the A style bedroom is similar to the prewar and the B style has one bed that drops vertically from the wall like a roomette bed, and the other pulls straight down from the ceiling. This A-B design made more efficient use of the space and allowed for slightly larger rooms and the private toilet stall.


  2. Roomettes take up about as much space as two coach seats (one in front of the other) so the walkway (hallway) runs down the center of the car with roomettes on both sides. Bedrooms are much larger and since a continuous walkway must be provided, the bedrooms are offset to one side of the car and the hallway is against the wall on the opposite side. A look at some Pullman interior plans will clarify all of these basics.


Sleeper Orientation

  1. Normally sleeping cars were operated so as to give the greatest number of seats a forward-facing ride. One of the considerations in sleeper orientation in a train is to orient the car so that the aisle side was on the least interesting side of a trip. Back in the day, when railroads catered to first-class passenger service, they would sometimes do things like that. It would take a lot of doing, since the train would have to be broken up and each car individually turned at the end of each trip to maintain the same consist and yet provide the view on the appropriate side. Only the best trains--such as SP's Lark or NYC's 20th Century Limited--would the railroad go to that much trouble.

  2. Tom Cockle


  1. On the LARK, the rooms would face the west, so to insure that the riders would have a view of the ocean (irregardless of time of day, or night). 

  2. Bill Daniels


  1. That means the vestibules face forward in one direction of travel, and faced the other direction on the return trip. which in turn means that the sleepers need not be wyed at the end of each trip.

  2. Tim O'


  3. Some cars had facing vestibules: passengers would get off of one car, the baggage off the facing vestibule at busy stations such as Glendale, where the porter on the train would put luggage on the closed trap and the porter on the ground would take it off the train.

  4. Jim Gerstley


Sleeper Safety Directive

  1. Sleepers to operate with aisle side to inside of double track for extra measure of safety against shifting loads. Therefore:

  2. 13 BDR and 4-4-2 sleepers operated with vestibule fwd, facing

  3. 10-5        Pullmans sleepers operated with vestibule rear facing

  4. Note: not always followed.


  1. 13 bedroom, 12 bedroom and 4-4-2 cars had the aisle on one side of the car too, not just 11 bedroom cars.

  2. There were other considerations as well... usually on double (or multiple) track the rooms would be aligned to be on the outside of the car, to eliminate the chance of lading falling off passing trains (more of an issue than you would think) and hitting an occupied room. Also SP set up the cars so that the rooms faced away from the passing track to minimize disturbing passengers by trains passing in the night.

  3. Bill Daniels




SP HW Pullmans Sleepers

SP and T&NO 1948 heavyweight Pullman sleeper acquisitions:

  1. Please note that the following is primarily about heavyweight cars. Lightweight car operation is much more heavily documented.


  1. 6SBR-2DBR-L-Sunroom (3974f) - two

  2. 14SBR          (3980 a & b) - two

  3. 10S-1C-1DR (3973a) - two

  4. 10S-1DR-2C (various) - sixty-three

  5. 8S-1DR-2C (3979a)- fifteen

  6. 10S-2DR           (3584a) - two

  7. 12S-1DR           (various) - fifty

  8. 5DBR-8S           (various)- sixteen

  9. 6DBR-6S           (various) - six

  10. 6C-3DR           (various)- ten

  11. 10S-L-Obs           (2521c) - two


  1. The 12-1 was the most common configuration owned by the SP, followed by the 10-1-2.


SP 1948 Heavyweight Pullman Sleepers

  1. Concerning HW sleepers, SP didn't own any until December 31, 1948. All sleepers were owned by the Pullman Company prior to January 1, 1949.

  2. Jeff Cauthen

SP 1948 Heavyweight Pullman Sleeper Names

  1. When SP purchased heavyweight sleepers from Pullman in 1948, they mostly kept the names. But their lightweight cars had numbers only. But in any case, the SP Society Volume 2 about passenger cars, covering sleepers, would have all the info you need, including MANY excellent photos.

  2. Tony Thompson


  3. SP cars were not usually named except for certain HW sleepers purchased in 1948. 

  4. Jeff Cauthen

SP 1953 Heavyweight Pullman Sleepers

  1. By 1953, there was no regularly scheduled Coast Route train using heavyweight sleepers. Many photos show deadheaded heavyweight sleepers on the rear of the “Coast Mail,” likely moving to and from the Pullman shop at Richmond, California.

  2. Tony Thompson


Modeling HEAVYWEIGHT PASSENGER CARS

Branchline


Brass Car Sides


Coach Yard


Rivarrossi (AHM)


Union Station Products


Wright - MHP

  1. Fluted and smoothside cars for entire trains

  2. 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941 Daylight

  3. 1941 Lark

  4. 1949 City of San Francisco

  5. 1949 Golden State

  6. 1950 Cascade


Walther’s



Details

Modeling Passenger Car Details

Underbody

S.P. sleeper underbody details

  1. A source for underbody diagrams of Espee's Pullman cars, *(see Mainline Modeler). They published plans for the 4-4-2 and 13 bedroom cars. The Society's fabulous Coach/Chair car book does not include underbody diagrams. The recent RMC article on Lark Pullmans kind of glossed over the underbody subject as well.


  2. Send me your address and I will send you what I gave out as a handout at the 2001 PCR convention in SLO on this subject of the Lark sleepers. If you are looking for detail for the triple dinner then the Limited Edition plans are the only way to go. In my article in the March issue of RMC the photo of the underbody (unpainted) was for the 22 RMT post war cars and not the 4-4-2. The underbody for the 4-4-2 is in the photo of the car upside down. The full article was to talk about the compete train set but it was too long. I believe 7 pages is their max. At the Prototype modelers meeting in Pleasanton this last mouth the gentleman from Coach Yards gave a talk about getting original plans of Pullman, Budd and ACF cars but it is a very long and hard road to follow.

  3. Ron Plies


Air Ducts

  1. Each specific Pullman received particular ducting. In the early days, it often only served the sleeping part of the car, with aisles and restrooms left un-air conditioned, but as the retrofitting of air conditioning progressed through the fleet, cars tended to receive more and more duct length, with a fair number getting full-length air ducts on both sides. Essentially all of the “room” accommodation cars purchased from Pullman by Southern Pacific were air conditioned.

  2. Tony Thompson

Modeling Air Ducts

New England Rail Service

  1. You need to find a photo to model from, if you want to reproduce a specific car accurately. Today the New England Rail Service (NERS) part #250 is the way to go, with ducting which fits the Rivarossi roof very well and these ducts really easy to apply. You get two full-length ducts, and an assortment of duct end fairings, with instructions.

  2. Tony Thompson


Interiors

  1. A good source to view Red Cap's product line is Walthers, including photos of most (not all) of their parts

Window Shades

Color

    Passenger car window shade color for the 1950's era Coast Daylights was aluminumized on the outside.

Modeling Venetian Blinds

The CoachYard

  1. A venetian blind kit that contains three different sizes of blinds for a total of 25 blinds.

  2. Sizes and quantity are as follows:

  3. *3 each of .850" x .350"

  4. *      12 each of .525" x .350"

  5. *5 each of .275" x .400"


  6. Part #DescriptionPrice

  7. 300Passenger Car Venetian Blind Set #1$8.50


Structural Factors

Interiors:

Modeling Structural Factors

Prefinished simulated wood interiors for Athearn & Model Die.

Sunshine Models$12

P.O. Box 305

Salinas, CA.  93912


Trucks

Heavyweight Passenger Car Trucks

  1. The heavyweight Pullman cars that ran on the Southern Pacific, had at least 8 different trucks that could be used.

Modeling Trucks


  1. Die CastChallenger wheels

  2. Kadee Challenger wheelsNot necessary to oil car trucks at all.



Paint

Pullman Green

SP 1948 Heavyweight Pullman Sleeper Paint Colors

  1. All sleepers were owned by the Pullman Company prior to January 1, 1949 and they were generally painted Pullman Green. The documentation is not clear as to whether SP owned HW sleepers were painted Dark Olive at some point after SP assumed ownership. Some documents seem to point in this direction, but no definitive answer is has been located to date. Select cars were painted Two-Tone Gray for the San Francisco Overland and Golden State.

  2. Jeff Cauthen

SP 1950 Heavyweight Pullman Sleeper Paint Colors

  1. Pullman drawing D-4864 issued 7/24/1950 for painting SP HW sleepers in green. It calls for Pullman Green paint #70-10 with imitation gold lettering. The issue with the above is that evidence suggests that the Pullman's Richmond, California shops were painting SP HW sleepers in "Pullman Green" that matched SP Dark Olive. See pages 167 and 572 in Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms.


Two - Tone Gray

  1. After 1948, select cars were painted Two-Tone Gray for the San Francisco Overland and Golden State.

  2. Jeff Cauthen

Reference

  1. Southern Pacific Color Chart                         Model Railroader, July 1944


Interior Paint

  1. Sleepers might be wood paneled (mahogany) or painted in tans or medium greens.

  2. Jeff Cauthen



Lettering & Numbering

  1. Before 1948, Pullman sleepers were lettered for Pullman, not SP (though sometimes for name trains). After 1948, when SP acquired a whole bunch of cars, many Pullman types were represented. The forthcoming book from SPH&TS, Volume 2 on passenger cars, deals with sleepers and will answer your question far more fully than is practical on this list.

  2. Tony Thompson 

SP  HW Pullmans

  1. Any HW sleepers that became SP property had SOUTHERN PACIFIC centered on the letterboard with PULLMAN at each end. No 3-2 observations were ever so lettered tho.

References

  1. There are some color photos of HW SP sleepers at

  2.                                        http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/mission.html

  3.                                        http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/mission2.html

Modeling Lettering & Numbering

  1. Standards

  2. 1936-1946Silver-Grey exterior eggshell enamel (Aluminum)

  3. pre-19569” Roman style lettering

  4. 12/55S.P. Bulletin-New style “Southern Pacific” block lettering

Decals

Champ315?

CaLocoWorksreally fragile, very thin film

Microscale

Thin Film

  1. Thin Film Decals offers what you are looking for. For SP two-tone gray passenger cars, the set you want is #158

  2. See scans for several Thin Film sets posted in the Espee list's Files section, including set #158

  3.                                                         http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Espee/files/Thinfilm%20Passenger%20Car%20decals/

  4. If that link breaks try this                http://tinyurl.com/cvdud73




SP LW Pullmans Sleepers

Details

Glazing

  1. To best represent typical SP etched window glass usage depends on the car and when it was built.There isn’t a "typical" answer for SP usage as cars were originally built for train service, ( i.e. Sunset Limited, Golden State Limited, etc. )

Modeling Window Glazing

  1.                     http://www.rgspemkt.com/PlmnWndo-1.html

Paint

    TTG lightweight scheme


Lettering & Numbering

Decals

HO decal stripes to match the Walthers PS LW Pullman Pool cars

  1. The Walthers stripes stop at the doors, whereas some of the SP cars had the stripes all the way onto the full width diaphragms.

Microscale

  1. Decals appropriate for the SP cars in grey are not available by Microscale.

SC&F

  1. SC&F will not produce its own decals.

Thin Film

  1. They can do all the paint schemes. ThinFilm's SP passenger car decal sets are very nicely done, as are their Daylight steam locomotive sets. 



Reference

  1. Mainline Modeler November 1991            - Plans, Pullman 4099, 4-dbr/6-rmt/6-sec.

  2. Railroad Model Craftsman December 1966     - Plan 4069, Pullman Lightweight Sleeper, 4DB, 4 COMP, 2 DR (9117 pictured)    

  3. Railroad Model Craftsman July 1972               - SP Pullman 4140C/D (SP 9030-9054(C), 9055-9056(D))

  4. Mainline Modeler September 1995            - SP Painting & Lettering Conclusion: Pullman pool two-tone grey scheme

  5. NMRA Bulletin June 1973                     - Plans SP Sleeper, 12-dbr and 13-dbr. and SP Paint data.

  6. Mainline Modeler August 1995                     - Plans, SP Pullman Sleeper 4071D, 13-dbr, #9350 - 9357.


  7. The Lark and Shasta Daylight cars (and all other Espee Pullman-Standard built streamline cars) are also covered in these fine books:


  8.                                                                         The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 5, Southern Pacific Prewar Cars

  9.                                                                         The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 6, Southern Pacific Postwar Cars

  10. by W. David Randall and William M. Ross

  11. Railway Production Classics, 1988 and 1989


  12. Although both books are OOP, copies appear on eBay and elsewhere from time-to-time. They do include interior plans and b&w builder photos of the cars along with many interior views. The books also contain exterior side elevation drawings in HO scale.


  13. Try contacting RPC directly at:

  14. RPC Publications

  15. PO Box 503

  16. Alton  IL  62002

                                                                           

                                                                           Pullman Company List of Cars, 1950, Bob Wayner

  1.                                                                         SP Passenger Cars Volume 1: Coaches and Chair Cars

  2.                                                                         SP Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms


  3. In volume two of the SPH&TS passenger series. There will be tables that will show which cars were numbered, painted two-tone gray, and so forth.  There will be information as to which cars were acquired by SP (and hence had SP on the letterboard) and which cars retained by Pullman were assigned to SP trains.


  1. Recently at the 2004 Prototype Modelers Meeting held in Pleasanton, CA, Dave Allen provided an excellent clinic on researching passenger cars. Dave indicated diagrams are available from most all the builders, including underbody details, from erection drawings. You'll need to know what to request and be aware of the perspective the drawings were made from.


  2. Complete erection drawings of all passenger cars built by Pullman-Standard are available from:

  3. Pullman Technology

  4. 16412 Lathrop Ave.

  5. Harvey  IL  60426




Specific Sleepers

22 Roomette Sleepers

22 Roomette Sleepers

    #9300-9304


   Seattle car #9304

  1. Lightweight Pullman 22 roomette sleeper, used on Cascade and Lark.

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 421-427

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 421

Modeling 22 Roomette

Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #37 Pullman 22-roomette (plan #4122), "Bay" series

The Coach Yard

    Plan 4122b

Union Station Products

  1. Use Union Station #4122B for these Pullman 22 roomette sleepers.


22 Roomette Sleepers

    #9305-9306

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 424

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 421




16 Section HW Pullman Sleepers

16 Section Pullman Sleepers

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 107-109

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 107



14 Section HW Pullman Sleepers

14 Section HW Pullman Sleepers

  1. SP bought at least six 14-Section Pullmans for M of W service. The cars were placed in M of W service in 1955.

  2. SPMW 5524 was TC-3026 08/29/55

  3. SPMW 5530 was TC-3081 09/20/55

  4. SPMW 5531 was TC-3082 08/29/55

  5. SPMW 5532 was TC-3100 10/14/55

  6. SPMW 5534 was TC-3111 03/08/55

  7. SPMW 5535 was TC-3116 04/21/55

  8. There may have been others. In addition, "New Orleans" and "Overcot" ran in SP trains at one time or another under the Pullman letterboard, as did TC-3000, TC-3074, and TC-3152. Tourist Car=TC. They were all Pullman Plan 4061 (no suffix).

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 110-111

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 110-111

Modeling 14 section sleeper

Branchline

    #54xx series

Coach Yard 14-section tourist sleeper

    Brass Coach Yard Pullman 4061 heavyweight 14-section tourist sleeper w/ interior.

Walthers 14-section tourist sleeper

  1. Walthers 14-section tourist sleeper is quite relevant to SP pax trains

  2. #932-10200, Pullman Heavyweight Sleeper, 14 Sect.


  1. #932-10209, Pullman Heavyweight Sleeper, 14 Sect.(Plan#3858A) :Not SP

  2. Elmo, Merriam Park, Merrilan, Warashw, Black River

Paint

  1. It comes in the two tone gray SP paint scheme.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. A complaint of the heavyweight cars is that the car names must be taken from a decal sheet provided and few SP names are included.


14 Single Bedroom Pullman Sleepers

  1. Night Cove

  2. Night Haven

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 135

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 135


14 Single Bedroom Pullman Sleepers

  1. #8050    Night Fern

  2. #8051    Night Mantle

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 173-174

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 173



13 Dbl Pullman Sleepers

13 Double Bedroom Pullman Sleepers

  1. #300 - 307

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 286-292

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 287

Modeling 13 Dbl. Sleeper

Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #21 Pullman 13-bedroom (plan #4071), "County" series

Union Station Products

  1. #4071D     Pullman 13 bedroom sleeper, smooth side



12 Duplex Single-Room, 5Dbl. Bedroom Sleeper

12-5 Sleepers

  1. 1938 cars , renumbered SP #9250 (Portsmith Square) & SP #9251 (Telegraph Hill)

  2. assigned to Starlight 1952, removed 1953 to SF Overland

  3. reassigned 1954 to West Coast

  4. reassigned 1955 to Starlight


  1. The streamlined 12-5 sleeper as was found on the Starlight in the mid-fifties. The Starlight DID have sleepers in its consist according to Dennis Ryan, author of Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, volume 1. The tables noted that sleepers weren't on every train. For instance the second table notes sleepers weren't operated on Saturdays.


  2. According to Ryan and Shine's Night Trains of the Coast Route, 2/21/52-5/14/56 consist included a LW 12-5 as well as a heavyweight 12-1 and for a brief period there were two HW 8-5's. Pages 132-135.

  3. Tony Thompson


  4. On page 129 he says "As availability of Pullman space on the STARLIGHT was never listed in public timetables, it is a little-known fact that this train carried regularly assigned pullmans for almost six years of its  operation.." On page 130 is a table giving the 1950-1951 consist that includes a heavyweight 12 section-1 drawing room car and a heavyweight 8 section-5 bedroom car.


  5. All the information you need on these cars (SP 9250-9251), plus a plethora of great photos are in Vol. 2 of SPH&TS' Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms.

Sleeper assignments for the Starlight

  1. SP Equipment Circular 14 shows the following sleeper assignments for the Starlight.

  2. Sleepers ran on the rear of the train, every day except Saturday.

  3. March 31, 1950 - none

  4. March 1, 1953; June 15, 1954; Oct 1, 1954: a 12-1 and a 12-5 sleeper

  5. These last two sleepers apparently ran until the Starlight was discontinued. There is no mention of the Starlight in Equipment Circular 15 [issued Feb 1, 1955].

Sleeper Orientation

  1. Normally sleeping cars were operated so as to give the greatest number of seats a forward-facing ride. One of the considerations in sleeper orientation in a train is to orient the car so that the aisle side was on the least interesting side of a trip. The photos in SP Passenger Cars Volume 2 seem to show the vestibule to the rear.  See pages 236, 255, & 257.

  2. Jeff Alan Cauthen

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 255-257

Modeling 12-5. Sleeper

Coach Yard

  1. TCY #3017 SP 12-5 Streamlined Pullman (minimized skirts) 1950s



12 Section, 1 Drawing Room, 1 Compartment

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 112-113                          

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 112



12 Section, 1 Drawing Room

12-1 Heavyweight Pullman Sleepers

  1. This was by far the most common single floor plan in the Pullman fleet (about half of Pullman’s 9000 cars were 12-1 cars. The 12-1 was the most common configuration owned by the SP, followed by the 10-1-2. SP purchased 12-1 sleepers of Plans 3410, 3410A, and 3410B configuration. Of the 12-1 Pullman Sleeper, (Plan #3410A), SP had 24. SP also received 12-1 sleepers for one Plan 2410.  


  2. That lot of 12-1s was built in August-October, 1926, to diagram 5, for the Sunset Limited. Some cars were designated T&NO, some SP. It appears from the Pullman records that none of the T&NO cars received numbers. A few of the cars went to other railroads, but the large majority stayed with SP/T&NO.


  3. PULLMAN - POOL SERVICE (GREEN)SOUTHERN PACIFIC - GREEN

  4. 15301 Kern                                        15309 Inyo

  5. 15302 McClendon                                        15310 Los Angeles

  6. 15303 Orange Bay                                        15311 San Francisco


  7.       SP "Clover Mountain" - Plan 4836B "rebuilt" in 1936 from Plan 2411A a 12-1.


Sleeper assignments for the Starlight

  1. SP Equipment Circular 14 shows the following sleeper assignments for the Starlight.

  2. Sleepers ran on the rear of the train, every day except Saturday.

  3. March 31, 1950 - none

  4. March   1, 1953; June 15, 1954; Oct 1, 1954: a 12-1 and a 12-5 sleeper

  5. These last two sleepers apparently ran until the Starlight was discontinued. There is no mention of the Starlight in Equipment Circular 15 [issued Feb 1, 1955].


  1. The Starlight DID have sleepers in its consist according to Dennis Ryan, author of Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, volume 1. On page 129 he says "As availability of Pullman space on the STARLIGHT was never listed in public timetables, it is a little-known fact that this train carried regularly assigned Pullmans for almost six years of its operation.." On page 130 is a table giving the 1950-1951 consist that includes a heavyweight 12 section-1 drawing room car and a heavyweight 8 section-5 bedroom car.


1950 Pullman Heavyweight Car List

    #8300-8316 = 3410B

8300      ex-Alazon      (3410B-built for San Francisco Overland)

8301      ex-Ashbourne     (built for Pullman pool)

8302      ex-Aspen    (3410B-built for San Francisco Overland)

8303      ex-Bexar

8304      ex-Brazos

8305      ex-Bretona      (3410B-built for San Francisco Overland)

8306      ex-Cabildo

8307      ex-Calafia

8308      ex-Coronado?  8308/Elkhorn(SFS 8/64, number not applied)     

8309      ex-Eureka

8310      ex-Farralone

8311      ex-Goliad

8312      ex-Gwin

8313      ex-Inyo

8314      ex-Juana

8315      ex-Los Angeles      as 3410Bs.

8316      ex-Marblehead      (3410B-built for Pullman pool)

    #8317= 3410

8317      ex-McAndrews (built 1925 for Pullman pool)

    #8318-8319 = 3410A.

8318      ex-McCausland (built 1925 for Pullman pool)

8319      ex-McClave        (3410A, 1925, for Pullman pool)

    #8320-8325 = 3410

8320      ex-McDuff         (3410, 1925, for Pullman pool)

8321      ex-McGee         (3410, 1924, for Pullman pool)

8322      ex-McGlinn          (built 1925 for Pullman pool)

8323      ex-McKimm        (3410, 1925, for Pullman pool)

8324      ex-McLean          (3410, 1924, for Pullman pool)

8325      ex-McLennan       (3410, 1924, for Pullman pool)

    #8326-8335 = 3410A.

8326      ex-McVean          (3410, 1925, for lease to CN)

8327      ex-Noyo

8328      ex-Pathfinder

8329      ex-Pecos

8330      ex-Placerville (the car that would have fit, Petaluma, went to SLSF)            8331      ex-Plumas

8332      ex-San Francisco

8333      ex-Solano

8334      ex-Sunburst Rose (the car that would have fit, Tensas (sic), went to L&N)    8335      ex-Tuolumne     

8336     ex-Washita ? (the last car of this group and the only named car after Tuolumne. Tensas was probably Tesnus.


  1. From this list, it appears that SP alphabetized the cars they were taking from the Pullman lease before numbering them, since as one can see their build dates (and lots) were rather random within the group. Of the 50 12-1s the SP purchased, 36 of those (SP #8300-8335) were named; the remaining 14 apparently were not numbered.


  2. The 1950 list does indeed show Coronado and Washita as Pullman-owned not purchased by SP.

  3. Tony Thompson  

Details

Trucks & Wheels

  1. The diameter of the wheels on a heavyweight 12-1 sleeper car were 36”. They had 242 or 242A trucks.

Mechanical AC

  1. The great majority of these cars had air conditioning, with visible rooftop ducts. Note, ducts did not extend over restrooms or hallways.


  2. Plan 3410A came with Pullman mechanical AC.

Paint

  1. Cars were originally painted - green

  2. SP Common Standard Color #1 - Dark Olive

  3. The roofs were painted - black


   Most remained in Green. (Pathfinder was painted Pullman Green).

  1. Several 12-1 cars received (SP) two-tone gray. (Cars McGlinn (#8322), Sunburst Rose, Bexar, Goliad. Cabildo,, and Noyo were painted TTG).

References

  1. On page 137 of the book Southern Pacific Passenger Trains Volume 1, Night Trains of the Coast by Ryan and Shine, there is a photo of the 12-1 Pullman named Bexar in two tone gray paint at San Francisco August 27, 1955. The caption indicates that the car is pictured 12 days after its last run on the Starlight. In the May 1986 issue of Mainline Modeler, there is a nice shot of "Goliad" in two-tone gray with SP lettering.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. In the ‘30s the sleepers would carry "Pullman" on the letterboard. The letterboard wouldn't carry "Southern Pacific" until after 1947 or 1948.

  2. Most 12-1 cars when they went to gray didn't remain with names.

  3. All were assigned SP numbers, but very few actually had the numbers applied.  

  4. After about 1948, lettering would have been Dulux Gold, a Dupont paint color.

  5. Tony Thompson

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 116-125,

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             188-196                          

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 116, 118

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             194                          

Modeling 12-1 Heavyweight Pullmans Sleepers

Glazing

  1. Etched window glass sets could represent typical SP usage. It depends on the car and when it was built.

  2. http://www.rgspemkt.com/PlmnWndo-1.html

  3. Window glass would work in SP:    12-1's (Inyo/Goliad/McVean)

Branchline Pullman Sleepers

    Branchline #53xx series


  1. Pullman 12-1 sleeper (Goliad, Calafia, McVean, Inyo, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Marblehead)


  2. Released by Branchline Pullman models suitable for SP trains. DO get the kits. They make up into superb and accurate Pullmans.

  3. Tony Thompson

Roofs of the sleepers for SP 12-1 HVYwght Sleepers

  1. On Branchline Sleeper kits, the roofs are the same on all their sleepers. The lengths, rivet pattern, and panel configuration is identical for the 12-1, 8-1-2, and 10-1-2. The AC ducting on one side (the side opposite the aisle) is the same for all three. On the aisle side, however, the ducting is of different length, and there are different vent configurations on each. It does appear, though, that the roofs could be interchanged between cars or even put on backwards, meaning that if there is a roof on one of the not yet released cars that has no ducting on one side, a pair of those roofs could be cannibalized into a single roof without AC ducting.

The Coach Yard

  1. The Coach Yard (TCY) Southern Pacific (SP) 12-1 Pullman Elkhorn Plan 3410B

  2. The Coach Yard (TCY) Southern Pacific (SP) 12-1 Pullman Los Angeles Plan 3410A

Rivarrossi  (AHM)

  1. These cars are inaccurate for the SP. Most SP 12-1 cars were air conditioned by 1953. These models lack the detail of a/c roof vents. You can make some for this model. Note, ducts did not extend over restrooms or hallways.

Walthers 12-1 Pullman Sleepers

  1. Walthers 12-1, a very nicely done model. Good for "early 50s" Starlight.

    #932-10009 - SP Pullman Heavyweight 12-1 (Plan #3410A)

  1. #932-10000 - SP Pullman Heavyweight 12-1

Trucks for Walthers 12-1 Pullman Sleeper

  1. The Walthers trucks are appalling, basic blobs and little more. Walls are thicker than Branchline but a little better than Rivarossi. Try replacement trucks that Walthers is offering (their item 933-1085)?  Or use Central Valley six-wheel passenger car trucks. But they are long out-of-production. They can be located occasionally on Ebay and through hobby shops handling estate sales. 

Paint

  1. Walthers new heavyweight passenger cars are painted (two tone grey). This is a 1954 scheme.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The Walthers decal provides only one name for SP with this car, Sunburst Rose. The Walthers car also has what appears to be white lettering and striping.



12 Double Bedroom Pullman Sleeper

12 Pullman Sleepers

  1. #9400-9401            12 Dbl Br


    Used on Cascade in 1950.

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 410-412

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 410

Modeling 12 Pullman Sleepers

Union Station

    Use Union Station #4139A for these 12 Room Sleepers


12 Pullman Sleepers Pullman Sleeper

  1. #9402    Golden Orange

  2. #9403    Golden Poppy

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 413-414

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.




10 Roomette, 6 Double Bedroom Pullman Sleeper

  1. The 10-roomette, 6 double bedroom sleeper is considered the "standard" sleeper of the streamliner era. As designs evolved, the preferred accommodations favored this configuration strongly and most major railroads operated some form of 10-6. This configuration was built by Budd, Pullman, and ACF and no two roads were exactly alike.


10-6 Pullman Sleeper

  1. #9030-9039, 9045            10 Rmt/6 Dbl Br


Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 374-385

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 374

Modeling 10-6 Pullman Sleeper

The Coach Yard

    Plan 4140c

Union Station

  1. Use Union Station #4140C for these numbered 10-6 Sleepers.


10-6 Pullman Sleeper

  1. #9036-9035

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 386-388

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.


10-6 Pullman Sleeper

  1. #9046    Golden Sun

  2. #9047    Golden Crest

  3. #9048    Golden Star

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 389-390

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.



10-6 Pullman Sleeper

  1. #9049-9052


  1. Used on Cascade in 1950 thru 1957. Also on Overland, Golden State and Lark.

Modeling 10-6 Pullman Sleeper

The Coach Yard

    Plan 4140c.

Union Terminal Imports

  1. Use for the standard #4140C plan.

Paint

  1. This car can be obtained without paint.



10-6 Pullman Sleeper  (Blunt-End)

  1. #9053-9054

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 391-393

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.



10-6 Pullman Sleeper  (Blunt-End)

  1. #9053-9054


  1. Used on Cascade in 1950 thru 1957.

Paint

  1. #9053 was in Two-Tone Gray color.

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 394-400

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 394

Modeling 10-6 Pullman Sleeper  (Blunt-End)

The Coach Yard

    Plan 4140d

Union Station

  1. Use Union Station #4140C modified to a Blunt End to make a #4140D.

Paint




10-6 Pullman Sleeper  (Blunt-End)

  1. #9055    Golden Dawn

  2. #9056   Golden Wave

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 401-403

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 394


10-6 Pullman Sleeper  (Blunt-End)

  1. #9040-9044

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 404-409

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.




10 Roomette, 5 Double Bedroom Pullman Sleeper / Coach

10-5 Pullman Sleeper / Coach

  1. #100-109    10 roomette-5BRD sleeper    Used on the Lark (Train 76)

  2. #106    10 roomette-5BRD sleeper

  3. #3540         10 roomette-5BRD sleeper.   Used on the Lark (Train 76)

  4. #3544    10 roomette-5BRD sleeper.   Used on the Oakland Lark (Train 73)    1941-42


    10-5 and 6-6-4 Pullmans were lightweight sleepers. All other SP sleepers were heavyweight.

  1. The smooth side P-S sleepers of types 10-5 are correct for SP. The 10-5 worked on the Lark.

Paint

  1. The 10-5 in 2-tone gray is correct.

  2. Simulated Stainless Steel and Scarlet is OK for 10-5.

Reference

  1. For modern (Post 1933) LW sleepers, the new issue of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia (RPCYC No. 11) is devoted entirely to them. It covers Pullman, Budd and a slight mention of AC&F. It covers the history and the appliances such as A/C, trucks, generators, etc. While not specific to Espee it covers cars used by them.


  1. NMRA Bulletin June 1973                     - Plans, SP 10/5 Sleeper

    see                                                                      PT1-40 & 46

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 271-279

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 272

Modeling 10-5 Pullman Sleeper / Coach

Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #17 Pullman 10-5 sleeper (plan #4072), "Cascade" series

Walther's PS 10-5 sleepers / coaches

  1. The 10-5 is good for the Lark. The chair car is the ex-C&O, ex-C&NW cars SP bought in 1961. Make sure the chair car has fluting below the windows.


    There’s information on the Walthers cars in:    Railway Prototype Cyclopedia (RPCYC No. 11)

Paint

  1. Walther's lists a PS 10-5 sleeper in stainless. The new Walther's 10-5s have the correct dark gray trucks and underbodies.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. Walther's lists a PS 10-5 sleeper in stainless with red letterboard.


10-4 Pullman cars  Private section

  1. In 1931/32 Pullman converted 19 plan 2412 cars to plan 2412H with 10 sections, 4 private sections. The private sections had a lavatory annex. Timetables show that in 1932-1941 they were used on the Lark and the Sunset between LA and SF.


  2. The names of the cars which were candidates for operation in the 1932-40 time period on the SP were:

  3.     Dalemont

  4.     Daleside

  5.     Dalerose

  6.     Daleford

  7.     Dalepark

  8.     Daleshire

  9.     Dalesburg

  10.     Dalemead

  11.     Dalecrest

  12.     Daleville


  13. Ryan and Shine in Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, Vol. 1 The Night Trains of the Coast Route state that Dalerose and Daleside were assigned to the Lark until it was streamlined in 1941. Daleford and Dalepark were assigned to the Sunset Limited until it was cancelled in 1942 west of LA. Dalerose and Daleside returned after WWII for the Advance Lark, which only lasted about 4 months.

Paint

  1. These PS 10-4 sleepers were painted Pullman Green.


  1. Note:  Daleburst, Dale Summit and Daleville were all painted Penssy Tuscan.

Reference

                                                                      Trainline #116, pg. 38-39

                                                                      Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, Vol. 1 The Night Trains of the Coast Route


10 Section, 2 Drawing Room

10-2 Pullman Sleepers

  1.     Point Angeles

  2.     Point Grenville

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 114, 184

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 114, 184



10 Section, 1 Drawing Room, 2 Compartment

10-1-2 Pullman Sleepers

    #8150-8206


  1. The second most common configuration owned by the SP was the 10-1-2 sleepers, both Plans 2585 and 3585.

Paint

  1. A few were painted in Two-Tone Gray also. (Lake Irvin)

  2. A few were painted in Pullman Green. (Lake Henderson and Lake Ordway)

Lettering & Numbering

  1. After about 1948 lettering would have been Dulux Gold, a Dupont paint color.

  2. Tony Thompson


  3. All were assigned SP numbers, but very few actually had the numbers applied.  

  4. Jeff Cauthen

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms pg 76-87,

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                         175-183

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms pg 77, 80, 174


Modeling 10-1-2 Pullman Sleeper

Branchline Trains

  1. Pullman 10-1-2 sleeper (Lake Hancock, Lake Ariana, Lake Sheridan)

Roofs of the sleepers for SP 12-1 HVYwght Sleepers

  1. On Branchline Sleeper kits, the roofs are the same on all their sleepers. The lengths, rivet pattern, and panel configuration is identical for the 12-1, 8-1-2, and 10-1-2. The AC ducting on one side (the side opposite the aisle) is the same for all three.

The Coach Yard

  1. The Coach Yard (TCY) Southern Pacific (SP) 10-1-2 Pullman Lake Norris, Plan 3585A

  2. The Coach Yard (TCY) Southern Pacific (SP) 10-1-2 Pullman Lake Sylvan, Plan 3585A

Walthers

    #932-10559 - SP Pullman Heavyweight 10-1-2 (Plan #3585, Lot #4728)



10 Section, 1 Drawing Room, 1 Compartment

10-1-1 Pullman Sleepers

  1.     Palouse Falls

  2.     Prior Lake

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 126, 174

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 126, 174

Modeling 10-1-1 Pullman Sleeper

Details

Air Cucts

New England Rail Service

  1. The New England Rail Service is the way to go, with ducting that are really easy to apply. You get two full-length ducts, and an assortment of duct end fairings, with instructions.

Glazing

  1. Etched window glass sets could represent typical SP usage. It depends on the car and when it was built.

  2.                                 http://www.rgspemkt.com/PlmnWndo-1.html

  3. Window glass would work in SP:    10-1-1's (Palouse Falls/Prior Lake)

Branchline Trains

  1. Pullman 10-1-1 sleeper (Palouse Falls, Prior Lake)


Rivarosssi Kitbash

  1. To get to cars like the 10-1-1 from the 12-1 Rivarossi model requires modification. A modification method was published by Thomas C. Hoff in Mainline Modeler, and presented the window movement/substitution process for modifying Pullman configurations. Once the window-correction part of the modeling is complete, you are ready to address the roof and other details. Essentially all of the “room” accommodation cars purchased from Pullman by Southern Pacific were air conditioned, so you’ll need to model the roof with the kind of add-on air ducts which Pullman applied. Today the New England Rail Service (NERS) part #250 is the way to go, with ducting which fits the Rivarossi roof very well and are really easy to apply. You get two full-length ducts, and an assortment of duct end fairings, with instructions.  You need to find a photo to model from, if you want to reproduce a specific car accurately.

  2. Tony Thompson

Paint

  1. Airbrush the car sides and ends with Tru-Color Paint #135, SP Dark Olive Green.

Roof

  1. Final rooftop color will be a pretty dark gray, to suggest weathered black roof cement. For this use the Tamiya “Gunship Grey” color, their no. TS-48.

  2. Tony Thompson



8-6 Sleepers

8-6 Sleepers

Golden State Pullmans

  1. The 8-6 sleepers ( 8 roomettes, 6 double bedrooms) were CRI&P and were delivered in 1954. None ever lost the side fluting.

Paint

  1. The Daylight Red and Simulated Stainless Steel (SSS) paint on the Golden State was replaced during the 1953/1955 period.

  2. CRI&P cars ended up completely SSS and the SP cars were painted SSS with Daylight Red letterboard edged in black.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The SP cars also had a Golden State ball and wing insignia applied. After 1958 the Daylight Red letterboard was redone in Scarlet with no edging. The insignia were also redone; dark gray letters replacing the Daylight Orange. Train specific insignia were dropped in 1963 and replaced by a generic ball and wing insignia.



8 Section, 5 Double Bedroom

8-5 Sleepers

     #8350    Clover Blossom

     #8351    Clover Colony

     #8352    Clover Court

     #8353    Clover Crown

     #8354    Clover Dell

     #8355    Clover Gate

     #8356    Clover Gem

     #8357    Clover Gloss

     #8358    Clover Glow

     #8359    Clover Gully

     #8360    Clover Haven

     #8361    Clover Home

     #8362    Clover Mountain

     #8363    Clover Shore

   T&NO 819  Clover Acres

   T&NO 820  Clover Dale


      Clover Gap

      Clover Garland

      Clover Gem

      Clover Grange

      Clover Greens

Sleeper assignments for the Starlight

  1. SP Equipment Circular 14 shows the following sleeper assignments for the Starlight.

  2. Sleepers ran on the rear of the train, every day except Saturday.

  3. Sept 24, 1950, Jan 25, 1951 & Nov 1, 1951: 8-5 HW sleeper

  4. June 1, 1952: an 8-5 HW


  1. The Starlight DID have sleepers in its consist according to Dennis Ryan, author of Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, volume 1. On page 130 is a table giving the 1950-1951 consist that includes a heavyweight 8 section-5 bedroom car.

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 128-129

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             197-200                          

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 129

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             197-200                         

Modeling 8-5 Pullman Sleeper

Coach Yard

    They make the #0410 HO Brass 8-5 Heavyweight Pullman "Clover" Series-Plan 4036B.



8-1-2 Pullman Sleeper

  1. SP purchased 8-1-2 heavyweight sleepers of Plan 3979A configuration. (8 Section/1 Dr Rm/2 Compartment sleeper). There were 22 8-1-2 Sleepers. According to the Car Assignment Database, pre-1942, 8-1-2 cars were not assigned on any coast SP trains.

  2. Jeff Cauthen


  1. Pullman Sleeper, 8-1-2, (Plan#3979A) ; SP had 15

  2. #8250    Centaurora

  3. #8251    Centgarde

  4. #8252    Centridge

  5. #8253    Centspur

  6. #8254    De Coverley

  7. #8255    De Peyster

  8. #8256    De Young

  9. #8257    De Wolf

  10. #8258    De Forest

  11. #8259    De Lancy

  12. #8260    Des Plaines


  13. #8261- 8264  Rock (...)

Paint

  1. They were two-tone gray for SP. Most of the cars when they went to gray didn't remain with names, but went to numbers.

References

  1. There is a shot of a 8-1-2 ("De Forest") in two-tone gray in the Sep/Oct ‘81 issue of MM.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. SP lettering ("DeForest").

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 185-188

  2. Photo of 8-1-2 (“De Forest”)                         Mainline Modeler  (Sept/Oct  ’81)                  

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 185

  2. Plans, SP Pullman 2585D, 8-sec/1-dr/1-cpt Railroad Model Craftsman August 1968         


Modeling 8-1-2 Pullman Sleepers

Details

Air Cucts

New England Rail Service

  1. The New England Rail Service is the way to go, with ducting that are really easy to apply. You get two full-length ducts, and an assortment of duct end fairings, with instructions.


Glazing

  1. Etched window glass sets could represent typical SP usage. It depends on the car and when it was built.

  2.                                 http://www.rgspemkt.com/PlmnWndo-1.html

  3. Window glass would work in SP:    8-1-2's (Rock Bay/De Wolf/Des Plaines)


Branchline

  1. The Branchline #50xx series SP 8-1-2 pullman cars are correct for SP Coast Line trains.

  2. They come as Pullman 8-1-2 sleeper (De Forest, De Wolf (1948-1962), Des Plaines (1948-1959) and SP "Rock Bay" (1948-1962)

                                                  http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/passengercars/8-1-2 sleeper/5017

  1.                                                   http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint_series/passengercars/pass_main.html

Roofs of the sleepers for SP 12-1 HVYwght Sleepers

  1. On Branchline Sleeper kits, the roofs are the same on all their sleepers. The lengths, rivet pattern, and panel configuration is identical for the 12-1, 8-1-2, and 10-1-2. The AC ducting on one side (the side opposite the aisle) is the same for all three.

Paint

   Branchline offers 8-1-2's painted dark green.


Coach Yaed

  1. TCY Samhongsa 8-1-2 Pullman with truck choice option.

Rivarosssi Kitbash

  1. To get to cars like the 8-1-2 from the 12-1 Rivarossi model requires modification. A modification method was published by Thomas C. Hoff in Mainline Modeler, and presented the window movement/substitution process for modifying Pullman configurations. Once the window-correction part of the modeling is complete, you are ready to address the roof and other details. Essentially all of the “room” accommodation cars purchased from Pullman by Southern Pacific were air conditioned, so you’ll need to model the roof with the kind of add-on air ducts which Pullman applied. Today the New England Rail Service (NERS) part #250 is the way to go, with ducting which fits the Rivarossi roof very well and are really easy to apply. You get two full-length ducts, and an assortment of duct end fairings, with instructions.  You need to find a photo to model from, if you want to reproduce a specific car accurately.

  2. Tony Thompson

Paint

  1. Airbrush the car sides and ends with Tru-Color Paint #135, SP Dark Olive Green.

Roof

  1. Final rooftop color will be a pretty dark gray, to suggest weathered black roof cement. For this use the Tamiya “Gunship Grey” color, their no. TS-48.

  2. Tony Thompson


Walthers

  1. #932-10059, Pullman Heavyweight Sleeper, 8-1-2, (Plan#3979A) ; SP had 15

  2. Centgarde, Centridge, Centaurora

  3. De Forest

  4. #932-10050, Pullman Heavyweight Sleeper, 8-1-2



7-2 Pullman Heavyweight Sleepers

7-2 Pullman Heavyweight Sleepers

  1. These used the Plan 2522/2522A/2522C.

  2. The 7-2 sleepers were used on SP during the late 40's and early 50's.

  3. Pullman 7-2 sleepers shown acquired by SP were purchased for conversion to Bunk or Roadway service. SP never owned any 7-2 sleepers, effective 12/31/1948, for use on their trains. 7-2 sleepers were assigned to the Lark (pre-1941) and Advance Lark (post war) over the years by Pullman.


  4. It is unlikely that 7-2s saw much revenue service on the SP after WW2.

   It appears the SP acquired about 10 units in 1949 with at least six of them going to SPMW within a short period.


  1. Bernardo            2522c, Ice A/C [scrapped unknown date]

  2. Chalons                     2522b, no A/C, 2410 trucks, acq. 08/16/49, to SPMW4893 10/10/51

  3. Coventry            2522b, no A/C. 1910 trucks, acq. 1949, to SPMW4888 07/31/51

  4. Custer                     2522f, PMB A/C, 1910A trucks, Pullman Pool from 07/15/41

  5. Ladrillo                     2522b, no A/C, 2410 trucks, acq. 1949, to SPMW4889 11/13/51

  6. Needles                     2522a, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949, to SPMW4882 07/14/50

  7. President Cleveland   2522c, no A/C, 242 trucks, acq. 1949, to SPMW4895  09/13/51

  8. President Grant 2522c, no A/C, 242 trucks

  9. President Harrison     2522c, Ice A/C, 242 trucks

  10. President Jackson       2522c, no A/C, 242 trucks

  11. Raton                     2522f, PMB A/C, 1910A trucks, Pullman Pool from 07/15/41

  12. Ruskin                     2522a, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949, to SPMW4891 12/24/51

  13. Sequoyah            2522f, PMB A/C, 2410A trucks

  14. Skyland                     2522a, Mech A/C, 1910A trucks

  15. Tantallon            2522, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949

  16. Teviot                     2522, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949

  17. Tineman            2522, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949

  18. Trosach,            2522g, PMB A/C, 2410A trucks, Pullman Pool from 07/15/41

  19. Yemassee            2522a, no A/C, 1910 trucks, acq. 1949

Paint

  1. There were several colors used from time to time: Silver roof on the steel cars was most common, although earlier (former passenger) cars are known also to have had black or mineral red roofs; sides were in later years a "light smoke gray" used for MW equipment, but in earlier times boxcar (mineral) red was also common.


  2. Any 7-2s assigned to the Lark were operated and owned by Pullman and so painted.

Reference

  1. See                                                                 Shine and Ryan, Vol. 1, The Night Trains.

Drawings

   There’s an article from Mainline Modeler with plans for the 2522C Pullmans.




6 Section, 6 Roomette, 4 Dbl Bedroom Pullman Sleeper

6-6-4 Pullman Sleeper

   #9150    American Charm

   #9151    American Dairyland

   #9152    American Forum

   #9153    American Guard

   #9154    American Merchant

   #9155    American Rampart

   #9156    American Ranger

                 American Elm

                 American Manor

                American Canyon

                American Rose


  1. A smooth side P-S sleepers of types 6-6-4.

  2. Sleeper 3544    Lark761948-506-6-4 sleeperPullman

  3. Sleeper 3545    Lark75         6-6-4 sleeperPullman


  4. Joe Shine in "Night Trains of the Coast Route", pg 44 top photo shows a 6-6-4 and 10-5 with SOUTHERN PACIFIC on the letterboard with the 3-digit number under the Lark insignia. The caption says this photo was shot in 1947; has a set of E-units on the point. Caption also asks why the vestibule is to the rear on the 6-6-4.

Paint

  1. The 6-6-4 in 2-tone gray is correct,

  2. Simulated Stainless Steel and Scarlet is OK for 6-6-4.

  3. Yellow is correct for 6-6-4.

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 326-334

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 329

Modeling 6-6-4 Pullman Sleepers

Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #9 Pullman 6-6-4 sleeper (plan #4099), "American" series

Coach Yard

  1. #0049.1 SP 6-6-4 Pullman with partial skirts

Lettering & Numbering

    SP #9150-9156

Eastern Car Works

  1. kit #1205, 85' 6-6-4 sleeper, undec

Union Station Products

  1. #4099        Pullman 6-6-4 sleeper, smooth side

Walthers

   Walther's SP Pullman 6-6-4 Sleepers                  (*see T 76/ 37 review)

Paint

  1. When Walther's released the PS 6-6-4 sleepers in the SP General Service paint scheme a few months ago they incorrectly gave them black trucks and underbodies. 

                                                                        (*see T 76/ 37 review)6-6-4 Pullman Sleepers



6 Section, 6 Double Bedroom Pullman Sleeper

6-6 Pullman Sleeper

      #8400    Poplar Cliff

      #8401    Poplar Cove

      #8402    Poplar Crest

      #8403    Poplar Dale

      #8404    Poplar Junction

      #8405    Poplar Lane


       Poplar Bluff

       Poplar Court


Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 127,

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             201-203

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 127, 201

Modeling 6-6 Pullman Sleeper

Soho

  1. A brass SOHO #2112 Pullman 6-6 Sleeper comes with a label "Southern Pacific Lines Sunset Limited 1930 - Standard Pullman Sleeper 6 Comp. - 6 BR "Poplar View”. But it NEVER ran on the Espee. It did on others (ACL, CB&Q, GN, MILW, PRR, etc).

  2. Leo Pesce


6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room Pullman Sleeper

6-3 Pullman Sleeper

  1. SP had 6-3 Plan 3523A heavyweight sleepers.

  2. The Advance Lark carried a 6-3, among other configurations.

  3. The Cascade carried a 6-3, among other configurations in 1946.


  1. #8450    Glen Aladale

  2. #8451    Glen Aubrey

  3. #8452    Glen Cambria

  4. #8453    Glen Ellen

  5. #8454    Glen Gardner

  6. #8455    Glen Loma Linda

  7. #8456    Glen Mawr

  8. #8457    Glen Moriston

  9. #8458    Glen Orchard

  10. #8459    Glen Tarsan

Paint

  1. Glen Cambria was painted TTG.

  2. Glen Mawr was painted Pullman Green.

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 130-132

  2.                                                                                                                                                                                             204-206

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 204-205

Modeling 6-3 Pullman Sleepers

Branchline Trains

  1. Branchline #56xx series Pullman 6-3 sleeper (Glen Moriston, Glen Aladale, Glen Ellyn)

Paint

  1. Model #5623 comes painted TTG.


Walther’s

  1. #932-10409, Pullman Heavyweight Sleeper, 6-3(Plan#3523C, Lot#6152/6341): SP had 5

  2. Glen (…) ; …Tay, Major, Huron, Gordon, Dower, Blair, Allen, Cambria

  3. Glen Aubrey, Glen Cambria, Glen Gardner, Glen Loma Linda, and Glen Mawr


6-3 Pullman Sleeper

  1. These SP 6-3 were Plan 3523A heavyweight sleepers.


  1. Glen Castle

  2. Glen Cedar

  3. Glen Ferry

  4. Glen Garry

  5. Glen Lodge

  6. Glen Meadow

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 133

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 133




6 Single, 2 Double Bedroom, Lounge-Sun Pullman Sleepers

6-2 Lounge-Sun Pullman Sleepers

  1. #8000    Mission Dolores

  2. #8001    Mission Santa Ynez

Reference

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 169-172

Drawing

  1.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 170



4 Bedroom, 4 Compartment, 2 Drawing Room Pullman Sleepers

4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

  1. A smooth side P-S sleepers of types 4-4-2 are correct for SP.

    Sleeper  200-205Lark   75  4 Bdr-4 Comp- 2 Drawing Rm, (*see renumbering PT1-40) PT1-40Pullman

    Sleeper       3541Lark   75  4-4-2Pullman Sleeper

    Sleeper       9106Lark   76  4-4-2 Pullman Sleeper 1955                   PT1-47 Pullman

    Sleeper       9118Cascade4-4-2 Pullman Sleeper 1971                   PT1-47 Pullman


Paint

  1. The #9118 Pullman 4-4-2 sleeper was painted in 2-tone gray.

  2. Simulated Stainless Steel and Scarlet is OK for 4-4-2.

  3. Yellow is correct for 4-4-2.

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 280-285

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 280


  2. Railroad Model Craftsman April 1968             - Plans, SP Pullman Sleeper 4069M, 4-dbr/4-cpt/2-dr, 6wh, celestory roof,            

  3.                                                                             modernized.

  4. NMRA Bulletin July 1973                     - Plans, Sleeper 4-cpt/4-br/2-dr.

  5. Mainline Modeler April 1992                     - Plans, Pullman 4069D/E/G (SP 9104-9(G), 9116-9117(D)), 4-br/4-cpt/2-dr.

   Railroad Model Craftsman Dec. 1966            - Plan 4069, Pullman Lightweight Sleeper, 4DB, 4 COMP, DR (9117 pictured)

Modeling 4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

The Coach Yard

    Plan 4069m

Union Station Products

  1. #9113  Pullman 4-4-2 sleeper, smooth side, use Union Station #4069H

  2. #9118  Pullman 4-4-2 sleeper, was used on Cascade  use Union Station #4069M

Walther's SP Pullman 4-4-2

                                                                        (*see T 76/ 37 review)4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers


4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

    #9100    Imperial Harbor

    #9101    Imperial Horn

  1. A smooth side P-S sleepers of types 4-4-2 are correct for SP.

Paint

  1. The 4-4-2 in 2-tone gray is correct,

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 316-317

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 317


  2. Railroad Model Craftsman February 1977       - Plans SP Sleeper 4069H 4-dbr/4-cpt/2-dr, to Auto-Liner Obs.

Modeling 4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #16 Pullman 4-4-2 sleeper (plan #4069), "Imperial" series

Eastern Car Works

  1. kit #1206, 85' 4-4-2 sleeper, undec (#200-205)(re#'d 9104-9109 in 1950-1951) "Imperial" series


4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

    #9110    Golden Mission

    #9111    Golden River

    #9112   

    #9113    Golden Moon

    #9114    Golden Crag

    #9115    Golden Strand


    A smooth side P-S sleepers of types 4-4-2 are correct for SP.

Paint

  1. The 4-4-2 in 2-tone gray is correct,

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 317-323

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 317


  2. Railroad Model Craftsman February 1977       - Plans SP Sleeper 4069H 4-dbr/4-cpt/2-dr, to Auto-Liner Obs.

Modeling 4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

Union Station Brass Car Sides

  1. kit #16 Pullman 4-4-2 sleeper (plan #4069H), "Imperial" series

Eastern Car Works

  1. kit #1206, 85' 4-4-2 sleeper, undec (#200-205)(re#'d 9104-9109 in 1950-1951) "Imperial" series


4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

    #9116    Golden Cavern

    #9117    Golden Trail


    A smooth side P-S sleepers of types 4-4-2 are correct for SP.

Paint

  1. The 4-4-2 in 2-tone gray is correct,

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 324-326

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 317

  2. Mainline Modeler April 1992                     - Plans, Pullman 4069D/E/G (SP 9104-9(G), 9116-9117(D)), 4-br/4-cpt/2-dr.

Modeling 4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers


4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

    #9118-9120            4 Cmpt/4 Dbl Br/2 Dr Rm


    #9119 was Seattle car #9120.

    Used on Cascade in 1950.

Paint

  1. The 4-4-2 in 2-tone gray is correct,

Reference

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 416-420

Drawing

  1.                                                                    Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg.

Modeling 4-4-2 Pullman Sleepers

Union Station

    Use Union Station #4069M for these 4-4-2 Sleepers.




UP Sleepers

Heavyweight cars for SP in HO-1946 era

  1. SP cars that would be seen on UP passenger trains in about 1946 or so. SP operated heavyweight sleepers on the following trains transiting Ogden per the 1946 Equipment Circular 14 of 6/2/1946 and as amended 1/1/47 (heavyweight cars except as noted; cars operated thru Ogden to/from UP except as noted):


SP Heavyweight Sleepers (transiting Ogden 1946)

  1. Pacific Limited - (train 21)        - (6) 12-1s, 10-1-2 (Oakland-Salt Lake thru Ogden), 16 section from Kansas City effective 1/1/47.

  2. Pacific Limited (3/24)               - (6) 12-1s, 10-1-2, 10 section obs; gone by 1/1/47

  3. San Francisco Challenger (1/23-1/24)- (8) 16 sections; (5) after 1/1/1947

  4. San Francisco Overland Limited (27-completely air conditioned) - 4-4-2 (lightweight), (2)6-6-4 (lightweight), 8-1-2, 10-1-2, 6-6-4 (lightweight, Ogden-Oakland); went to (1) 4-4-2, (3) 6-6-4s, 10-1-2 and 8-1-2 effective 1/1/47.

  5. San Francisco Overland Limited (28-completely air conditioned) - 4-4-2 (lightweight), (2)6-6-4 (lightweight), 8-1-2, 10-1-2, 6-6-4 (lightweight, Oakland-Ogden); does not show a consist change as of 1/1/47.


Sleepers

  1. 1938 cars , renumbered SP9250 (Portsmith Square) & SP9251 (Telegraph Hill)

  2. assigned to Starlight 1952, removed 1953 to SF Overland

  3. reassigned 1954 to West Coast

  4. reassigned 1955 to Starlight


SP Lightweight Sleepers (transiting Ogden 1946)

City Of San Francisco (101-102); -

  1. 4Cmpt-3Dr. Room/12 Sections (Fisherman’s Wharf/Golden Gate Park-articulated)       

  2. 12 Duplex/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Portsmouth Square) 10 Roomettes/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Ferry Building)

  3. 4 Cmpt/4 Dbl. Bedrooms/2 Drawing Rooms (Twin Peaks, Chinatown, Yerba Buena, Cliff House)

  4. 6 Sec./4 Drawing Rooms/6Roomettes (American Ranger)


City Of San Francisco (101-102); Eighth train)

  1. 4 Cmpt-3Dr. Room/12 Sections (Fishermans Wharf/Golden Gate Park-articulated),

  2. 12 Duplex/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Portsmouth Square)

  3. 10 Roomettes/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Ferry Building) (4)

  4. 4 Cmpt/4 Dbl. Bedrooms/2 Drawing Rooms (Twin Peaks, Chinatown, Yerba Buena, Cliff House)

  5. 6 Sec./ 4 Drawing Rooms/ 6 Roomettes (American Ranger)


City Of San Francisco (101-102; Tenth train)

  1. 4Cmpt-3Dr. Room/12 Sections (Seal Rocks/Union Square-articulated)

  2. 12 Duplex/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Telegraph Hill)

  3. 10 Roomettes/5 Dbl. Bedrooms (Rincon Hill)

  4. 4 Cmpt/4 Dbl. Bedrooms/2 Drawing Rooms (Sutro Heights, North Beach, Hunters Point, Civic Center, Angel Island)

  5. 4 Double Bedrooms/lounge obs (Russian Hill); withdrawn from 1/1/47 consist for 4 Cmpt/4 Dbl. Bedrooms/2 Drawing Room numbered sleeper 213.

Paint

  1. Remained painted yellow and grey with original trucks.


  1. 1) Pullman drawing MD-D-4888 was issued 1/27/1947 for painting UP cars in the familiar Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray.  Pullman was centered on the letterboard, Union Pacific was NOT originally at the corners; this was added later (probably 1950, but the date on the drawing is obscured).


  2. 2) Pullman drawing D-4940 was issued 9/18/1950 for painting UP HW sleepers in TTG. Pullman in center of letterboard, UP at each corner. Dark gray window band edging was silver gray (1 3/4")  edged in black (1/4"). Lettering same.


  3. 3) Pullman drawing D-4812 issued 3/9/1946 for the TTG scheme. This drawing originally had standard Pullman lettering or OVERLAND at center of letterboard with Pullman at ends. Overland on letterboard was removed and replace by Pullman. Union Pacific was added at all four corners; this revision occurred 10/3/1950.


  4. All the above UP drawings replaced by drawing D-5645 issued 2/11/1952.

Reference

  1. City of San Francisco Passenger Cars       Trainline #45/ 7-15

  2.                                                                     Southern Pacific Passenger Cars Volume 2: Sleepers and Baggage-Dorms, pg. 228-269


Modeling City of S.F.  PASSENGER CARS

Wright - MHP

  1. Fluted and smooth side cars for entire trains.

  2. 1949 City of San Francisco





 
Southern Pacific Lines
Modeling S.P. Pullman Sleepers
General Information
Pullman History
Pullman Acquisitions
Paint
Lettering & Numbering
Details
Reference

Specific Sleepers
- 22 Roomette Sleeper
16 Sleeper
14 Sleeper
13 Sleeper
12 Sleeper
10 Sleeper
  8 Sleeper
  7 Sleeper
  6 Sleeper
-   4 Sleeper

UP Sleepers
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